Canadian Customer Help

[Hladun]

I'm trying to place an order and Pelican are demanding that I send personnal information before they will process my credit card order. Other Canadian customers, is this Pelican's procedure or am I being scammed? Thanks.

[bdonally]

I'm not sure what personal info you are describing, but I have placed many orders with pelican, always by credit card, and have nothing but excellent results and treatment.

[Hladun]

Originally posted by 911toronto
I'm not sure what personal info you are describing, but I have placed many orders with pelican, always by credit card, and have nothing but excellent results and treatment.

I have not ordered for several years. They want a picture of my CC and Photo ID.

[ae1969]

Uhmmm personal as in what?

The shipment address

[Venetian]

I"ve never had to do this. Maybe a new policy??

[Hladun]

Originally posted by ae1969
Uhmmm personal as in what?

The shipment address

Cute! When I posted I didn't say what to see if others could confirm what they wanted. But then I never counted on you.

[ae1969]

Uhmmmmmmm

ok thats weird.......

I have always ordered via the internet.......... and no questions asked.

They may have been stung recently?

[Wayne 962]

All International orders over a certain size require us to have a copy of the Credit Card to verify that you actually have it in your possesion, and a copy of your ID. These two things are the same that would be presented in a retail location (credit card and valid ID). It is not unreasonable for us to request a faxed copy of this information in order to confirm that you are the actual cardholder.

We cannot confirm International credit cards in the same manner that we can confirm US domestic cards. The entire risk of the transaction falls on us. If you decide to dispute the charge and say you never placed the order, or never received it, then there is absolutely nothing we can do (for International card). If we have a faxed copy of your credit card, then it is one additional indicator that you are the actual card holder. In fact, our credit card company recommends that we do this for all transactions, regardless of whether they are US or International. But this is not practical in most cases, and with the added protections for the US, then this also not necessary.

The other option is to do a wire transfer. We require this on large International orders, because again, we don't have any protection against rampant International credit card fraud.

Credit card fraud is a serious crime which raises prices for everyone. We have put these protections in place to make sure that law abiding customers don't subsidize the illegal efforts of a few criminals.

Again, this applies only to large orders and/or first time International customers. Once we have an established, working relationship with you, these concerns become moot.

-Wayne

[Hladun]

Wayne,

Thanks for replying on this thread. This may work for you, but it sure doesn’t work for me.

Your first way, send CC and Photo ID pictures over the Internet or by FAX. Just today my bank (a major Canadian bank) sent out a warning not to send personal information in response to an e-mail that looks very legitimate. Identity theft is a serious problem and sending out this type of data is very unwise. You may be protecting yourselves (although I seriously doubt it) but you sure aren’t thinking of your customers.

You say the you are at risk. Will the CC company, VISA in this case, not pay you? How will a fake picture of a CC make you any safer? If your so scared to do business, put through the transaction and ship only when the charge has cleared or after several days. There has to be a better way!

Your second way, bank transfer is again putting your customers at risk. Effectively we’re blinding wiring money to a bank account. If the order is lost or stolen the customer has no recourse. One great advantage of using a CC like VISA is that the customer gets this protection.

Your bolded line about first time customers is false, I have ordered from you before and I still got this treatment. Also, what is the size of order that you don’t consider “large”? Will you agree to send a small order without this process and then accept a “large” order? Here’s is what your order desk said “The way it's setup, you're flagged as a valid customer, as long as the CC stays current. When the CC info changes, it's looked at as "NEW" again.” This sounds to me that if you move, or your expiry date changes, or anything else your going through this process again.

Bad business!

Anthony Hladun

[rotorhead]

I am in Australia and regulary order from Pelican and must say I receive World Class service. From memory I faxed a copy of my credit card on my first order. I was happy with this procedure as it showed that Pelican takes Credit Card fraud very seriously. I felt that this demostrates their trust worthyness rather than the opposite as you implied.

Just have a look at this forums to see the number of P-Car owners who proudly call themselves Pelicanites.

Steve

[Fred999]

I have also faxed my CC and drivers license the first time I ordered and not again. I am totally cool with this as CC company's stick the retailer (I believe) in the case of fraud from authorized transactions where there in no signature. I think it is good business practice on Pelican's part to request this info. That said, I would never email this info as its not secure - fax only.

Also, its pretty easy to check spoofing of email or fake websites, so if you are not confident about this then I wouldn't order over the internet period. That includes scary forums where your details may leak out.........................

[dimps8]

No Problems over the big pond here either. I have only had to sent the info once.

[imcarthur]

I have often booked hotel blocks for the company I work for. It is very common for hotels to request a faxed copy of the credit card. I have done it dozens of times over the years. They just need the security, just like Pelican does . . .

Ian

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by Hladun
Just today my bank (a major Canadian bank) sent out a warning not to send personal information in response to an e-mail that looks very legitimate. Identity theft is a serious problem and sending out this type of data is very unwise. You may be protecting yourselves (although I seriously doubt it) but you sure aren’t thinking of your customers.

You're very mistaken here, as any information that you are sending me, I already have with your order. (Name, billing address, credit card info). So by sending this by fax, you're just sending a copy of information that you typed into your order.

You say the you are at risk. Will the CC company, VISA in this case, not pay you?

That is 100% correct. A credit card transaction can be reversed up to a year after the transaction has taken place. No offense, but you obviously have no idea how the credit card business works. To fully understand the situation, I suggest that you do a little bit of independent research. You will find that the business (me) is completely trusting the buyer (you) when I send out goods (particularly International orders). You can just deny the charge with your credit company and then I'm stuck with the bill.

How will a fake picture of a CC make you any safer? If your so scared to do business, put through the transaction and ship only when the charge has cleared or after several days.

Again, it doesn't work like a check - a transaction can be reversed up to a year after it's taken place. Most stolen credit card numbers are stolen from a database, so the person with the stolen number obviously doesn't have a copy of the credit card. We get hundreds of fraudulent International orders placed with our company each year. It's really very rampant.

Your second way, bank transfer is again putting your customers at risk. Effectively we’re blinding wiring money to a bank account. If the order is lost or stolen the customer has no recourse. One great advantage of using a CC like VISA is that the customer gets this protection.

That's an interesting perspective, considering that the company shipping out the goods shoulders 100% of the risk. So you're not willing to trust Pelican Parts, yet I'm supposed to blindly trust a random customer who enters a random credit card into my order system without offering up any documentation to support it. There's no protection for the business if you suddenly decide not to pay for the goods. Considering that we've been in busines for more than eight years, and our reputation is widely praised on this board, I'd say the risk to you is very low.

Your bolded line about first time customers is false, I have ordered from you before and I still got this treatment. Also, what is the size of order that you don’t consider “large”? Will you agree to send a small order without this process and then accept a “large” order? Here’s is what your order desk said “The way it's setup, you're flagged as a valid customer, as long as the CC stays current. When the CC info changes, it's looked at as "NEW" again.” This sounds to me that if you move, or your expiry date changes, or anything else your going through this process again.

The computer is not 100% perfect - it flags orders that have a high chance of fraud. International orders are automatically flagged. The system is also brand new as of a few weeks ago. I just researched your order here, and I agree - it should not have been flagged. This is a training issue - my employees should not have asked you for this information. I have just sent them an email asking them why they are asking for this information.

On the other hand, I'm not thrilled that you decided to post this here, and then after you posted, you sent me an email with a link. This is an internal issue having to do with your order and our internal company policies. If you had a problem or a question with this, it could have been resolved in about three minutes with a simple email to me. I would have looked at your order history and approved your order to be sent out. Instead you place a potentially inflammatory email on the boards (QUOTE: "am I being scammed"). Not a good way to win favor with me.

-Wayne

[Hladun]

Wayne,

I appreciate your response.

If you re-read my first post, all I was trying to do here was confirm via the forum that this was a policy you were using and I was not the victim of an Internet scam. I did not accuse you of scamming me. When I sent it on to you it was because no other member had said that they were subject to such a policy (other than rotorhead with his later post).

When you had the lengthy thread about shipping to Canada, never once did you mention that you had such a payment policy in place. I think that might have been a good time to mention it. Also, your order entry system mentions validation (if I remember correctly), but doesn’t demand it at the time of order.

I admit that I don’t know how credit cards work, but if they are as bad as you say then why does anybody accept them? You know from experience, but I’m amazed that a CC company would reverse a transaction a year later and expect you to refund the payment.

[copper]

I've ordered from Pelican several times now in the last 4 months and have NEVER had a problem. From a fellow Canadian, you can feel safe doing business with them.

And, from a law enforcement perspective, Wayne is bang on about the potential for businesses to be scammed or face charge backs on CC transactions.

I have no problems with Pelican taking these steps to protect themselves, although it is only marginal at best for the reasons Wayne has already stated.

Just think how many times you've left a 'copy' of your CC with a person who's credibility you have no idea of... (as in an imprint at a retail store, or a computer swipe) Not only do they have the card imprint and info, but they've got your signature too.

My 2 cents, put your faith in Pelican. This many users can't be wrong...

Jim

[Wayne 962]

Originally posted by Hladun
I admit that I don’t know how credit cards work, but if they are as bad as you say then why does anybody accept them? You know from experience, but I’m amazed that a CC company would reverse a transaction a year later and expect you to refund the payment.

It's called a monopoly (Visa and Mastercard). Not accepting credit cards means that you can't do business. I get an electric bill each month. I have no choice but to pay it or they will turn the electricity off. I have no other choice of electricity providers. I have no other choice with credit cards. It's just the way it is...

-Wayne

[Wayne 962]

Oh, and in case you guys were wondering, credit card fraud theives stole tens of thousands of dollars from Pelican last year. Possibly more than most of you spent to buy your cars. It's no different than if someone broke into your car and stole it. Imagine that - if someone stole your 911 from you - each and every year. Yet, I'm expected to eat it. If I sound bitter, I'm sure you can imagine why.

So, we have been putting more safeguards in place to prevent this from happening. As I mentioned before, credit card fraud translates in to higher prices, so in the end, you guys pay the price for a couple of bad apples (isn't that always how it is, unfortunately?).

-Wayne

[Purrybonker]

Not a good way to win favor with me.

-Wayne

Yeah, that's why I deal with Pelican - I just want to win your favour so that someday you might let me pinch those chubby little cheeks...

Card fraud is way more prevalent in the US than Canada (what crime other than beaver thievery isn't?) - you might be barking up the wrong tree with your "international fraud" controls. Maybe you should shop/negotiate your acquiring business better if you're getting beat up on fraud.

Besides, we all know that the issuing bank and/or your acquirer wont give a rats butt about whether you have a fax copy of a credit card or other ID if they want to charge you back.

If your staff are getting security digits off back the back of the cards and verifying shipping addresses you should be relatively immune to most fraud. You/your acquirer should push back on chargebacks where you have taken all proper steps.

Watch out for that collateral damage with your snazzy new loss-prevention controls. Porsche owners have even bigger egos than aftermarket parts sellers.

[imcarthur]

Originally posted by Purrybonker
beaver thievery

We only steal them for 'watch' pets. Stake the little buggers near a door & feed them woodchips or dying house plants. If a baddy comes, he wakes you up (and scares the cr*p out of the baddy) with his tail slappin'. They're great. I got 3 of them myself.

Ian