Randy,

Go write some articles with good images. It doesn’t have to be too complicated. You will get published. BJ is always looking for quality material. Send her too much and let her edit it down to fit.

I don’t have a clue what the Club will do when she and Leonard retire (probably out of necessity rather than intent.) With BJ’s editorial skills and Leonard’s legal and photographic expertise, that couple has been a boon for PCA and all of us.


Back to the original thread.
I don’t know how much Hershey is charging PCA, but I’ll bet it is an arm and a leg or two. That makes event chairs very nervous when there is a big nut to crack.

Best,
Grady

IMHO, PCA should have offered Frank B. the job of Pano...Grady, you gotta agree with that one. ;) I will confess to having some prejudice here. The last PCA event Cindy & I went to we felt pretty severly snubbed. That was several years ago, and we haven't been back. Still, I keep sending the dues in, though I often wonder why. Just habit I guess. I've been doing so since 1967...(edit) And WHY do Parades have to be held in high cost areas? Perhaps something else that needs to be discussed. Am I the only guy here who gulps at paying over $200 a night for a couple's place to sleep? Speaking generally here, since I have no idea of Parade lodging costs...

I have been sending my PCA dues in for the last 15 years..I've also been questioning why I bother to pay the PCA dues for about the last 6 or 7 year....

I now think PCA has given me the missing variable... the above quote represents some seriously misguided thinking

PCA isnt the shizzle.. I can get track time for free if I instruct for other organizations (which I do frequently) or I can pay a "reduced instructor fee" to instruct for PCA

PCA now has the BALLS to

PAY TO VOLUNTEER

azholiios

Paul,

Of course; Frank is a very energetic, talented and organized editor/publisher. I agree he would be a great Pano editor. He is slightly busy with editing and publishing the MB Star. Not to mention Toad Hall Motorbooks which keeps me in reading material.

The big issue is that you, I, Frank, and the Turners are all of the current generation. There needs to be new blood at some point. All of us are more than willing to help the next generation while we can. That is what I am trying to do on the Pelican Forum.

The reason Parades are at somewhat expensive venues is because WE want to go to cool places. I recall places like Laguna Seca, Seattle, Portland, Brainerd, and many more. Yes, many save up all year to attend.

Tim, please don’t see PCA that way. The event organizers are reacting to economic reality factors. They are Porsche nuts just like you and me.

I will humbly bow down to anyone who will put on a Porsche Parade. It is a lot of work for one of the best Porsche events in the world.

Best,
Grady

I think Bill G. has the solution. Somehow corner workers get paid and some food. The entry fee covers the cost as it does the insurance, track rental, etc.

I have never been a member of PCA. 21 years ago I entered a wash and shine PCA event here in SoCal. You can surmise what I thought of the deal.

And, as a disclaimer, I don't know if PCA corner workers DO get paid. Everywhere else I've had experience, they get something.

Continuing while the thought is at hand, a very close friend of mine flagged at the Long Beach Grand Prix thru Cal Club for many years. Now that I would have paid for. But AFIK, he wasn't, just meals. And he had to work a lot of regional races before they would hand over the reponsibility of flagging a CART, TransAm and Atlantic race, not to mention the stupid celebrity fiasco.

I didn't mean to drift too far from the point. I guess it goes both ways depending on what the event is. But I would say for the most part, volunteers are not payers. Contributors maybe, but not payers.

Maybe PCA just needs to reword things from a PR perspective.

I lost intrest in the PCA 4 years ago when they scheduled more "fun runs" than races events. Then I joined POC, and have been busy ever since ....ON THE TRACK!!!!

Mike

How about a Porsche Parade in Stuttgart, hosted by the Germany Region? We won't charge volunteers.

Oh wait, our charter was revoked... nevermind.

Are these the bare facts of the issue?
1. Previously, volunteers attended Parade for free.
2. Now, volunteers get a discount but it doesn't cover some events.
3. This is perceived as "paying to volunteer".
4. PCA made no effort to change this perception.

-Chris

If you have to ask or defend PCA the question is already answered. The answer is a resounding Yes. Sadly "our" club is lacking on a national level and in the NW on a local level IMO.

We (my wife and I) belonged to PCA for a couple of years. Didn't take too many local events to realise we weren't part of "the" group. Then we watched a rather vitriolic change of the local board that IMO was uncalled for and childish. Next came the local PCA organizers not doing what they said and trying to take over any event a few of us set up for P car owners in the area.

While I was finished with PCA locally the final straw was last month's XXX meet where the owner of XXX, who has sponsored classic car shows all summer for years, was told to remove the "Porsche club" from the annual calendar. Same Porsche meet we started and invited PCA to last year.

There is a reason there are RGruppes, NGruppes and BGruppes. Track events, drives, shows and insurance can all be had in other venues besides PCA. Typically you can do all of the cheaper as well

In the NW there are a few of us making all that happen and more as in more fun. The national run to Sioux Falls is another example of what PCA should have done years ago.

Workers should not have to pay. Thats nuts to be asking those who are helping make the stuff work to pay for the privaledge is silly and stupid. But PCA has sometimes seemed to me to have its fair share of that.

Instructing for PCA gets you $100 off the price... Road Atlanta is thus still costing $195. When I instruct for BMW club or NASA its free.

PCA has meetings out the wazoo. The meetings are amazingly repetitive. They last 30 minutes when 5 would have covered everything. Other clubs thats not the case. Its to the point, funny and fast.

In NASA instructors can run in any solo run group plus they have their own. They can also carry anyone as a passenger they wish. You can pass anywhere (and everyone does....but amazingly cleanly). You tech your own car and you tech your students cars. You sign someone off and the event chief does not question it (even though he has even met or ridden with the student). And its free.

I would like to see PCA treating those who are contributing BETTER, not start charging them to help....

Other clubs are attracting PCA people because the other clubs are doing a better job of being a real club that pays to have nice events put on. Really throw first class events. Heck, I would prefer the PCA people putting on the events DID get paid. They should. THe job should pay something. To put on events like this is a HUGE job and to have them run smoothly takes a dedicated staff. So why should PCA not pay those who are making it all happen. Charge an extra $50 per weekend for the regular participants.

Some of these other clubs charge more and their events are slammed full. And if the workers are paid... they are also then accountable to the club. If members dont like the job being done they will have the ability to vote for a change and they will.

Anyhow, I admit to being a tiny bit miffed lately at PCA. At our last event on Sunday morning I missed the drivers meeting. I was out late the night before and literally overslept. When I arrived I went and saw the chief instructor and asked what I had missed. HE said not much, told me a couple of specific things about the track they had discussed and was fine with things. But he didnt have any meeting stickers so he told me to get one from teh event chair. I went and found him, explained what had happened and said the chief instructor had said he would give me a sticker. Well..... no sticker. No driving allowed for me. I was told I would not be allowed to drive any of the morning sessions. So, I lost half my days sessions.

Sure, I was late. I "deserved" it. But when its me making that decision.... it would have been different. In a club your fellow club members are supposed to be your friends. Threat them that way.... and that of course goes both ways.

Anyhow... I really do think the PCA volunteer workers should get paid. Like an event chair at a DE getting $2,500 per event and others a less amount. 99% of them are fantastic and stuff wouldnt happen without them so pay them!

Not quite Chris...the "volunteers" have to pay $30 in order to become "volunteers". Cash out of their pocket into the Pea-Raid coffers. I know Mick...have known him for decades. Trust me on this one...with Mick, it's not the money, it's the principle...or is it the principal? "The principal is my pal"....ah hell, I never could spell worth diddly! :rolleyes:

Here's my 2 cents...

The "C" in PCA stands for Club, not Corporation. Anybody that uses the nouveau corporate buzz words like "drill down into the details" needs to be smacked. This is a CLUB not a Fortune 500 company.

I joined PCA 7 years ago with a $2500 914. I enjoyed going to events and parking it next to a 996. I knew my car wasn't worth one brake caliper on the 996 but felt like I belonged none the less. Now we have clowns modeling club events after a multi-million dollar professoinal sports event. My old 914 doesn't seem so worthy anymore.

Once a club starts treating its members like minions or worse, like customers, it loses the most important element of its existence. It loses the Average-Joe, grassroots, genesis of the club. We shouldn't be used to support the Parade. The Parade should exist for the members.

You don't charge volunteers for a club event because it is wrong. If people want to be entertained during the Parade yet not do any work, then they should pay for the volunteers.

Dave? BRAVO! You said it well...Me? Maybe it is only because of habit I've sent the dues in. I'm thinking of paying them until year 40 is due...then not responding when I get my "only" dues notice. Not that PCA itself will give a flying French kiss. You nailed it...it's ALL about the money these days....

Volunteering should be just that: free and for the spirit of it.
It's very wrong for PCNA to try and make money off of events. Either tone down the location and frills, or cut back, that's the job of the club presidents/orginizers.

But like every orginization, they must have capital for random lawsuits, mega-events, and unforseeable expenses.
Mabye the top brass should be unpaid and PorscheNA chip in? After all, it's free advertising compared to the superbowl.

That said, I pay my dues for the expensive glossy non-tech magazine and the oportunity to meet others members and share advice that will save me more than $40/year.
And thanks Wayne.

Great......
I'm reading all this with some trepidation.
We (ORPCA) have the Parade next year and I am the Autocross chair. Maybe I'll get my self impeached before that happens;).

My main issue is to find a good venue to run the thing as PIR's venues..... suck (I'm being kind).

From what I'm told about Hershey thus far:

1200 applicants the first day they were open. 700 were accepted...one assumes by the luck of the draw. Of the 700,
550ish wanted to AX. :eek: (that got my eyes big). They had planned on around 400 (as were we) but may add a 3rd day to accomodate the overflow.

I assume "they" will let me in, but , from the sound of things, I may not get to run:(

The bottom line is "we no makey the rules" and "they" can be choosey. "They" try to do right by the region that's hosting the Parade......which includes making sure the region doesn't loose their a$$.

I don't get involved much in out local region....I ain't much of a joiner....I'm in it for the autocross. :D
I pay to play but got a jacket & hat which is more than I expected. To run in the AX, I fully expect to pay the full price of entry just to kick some 9eleben a$$ :D

Very sad commentary....

I think it's time for a full audit of the PCA :D ...you're that bad off you need to charge volunteers to volunteer? The six months ending in June had the assets at a little under a million bucks....

Instead of paying $42 next year for the Porsche Club of America dues, I'd be more than glad to direct that money to the Pelican Club of America ;)

all I can say is that paying to volunteer is rediculous...I guess so many people want to volunteer that PCA figures they might as well make a few bucks? :rolleyes:

I'm not so sure I expect to get something for nothing as much as I expect to give something for nothing. Getting charged to "donate" time is out of the question.

Charge entrants more and workers nothing-solved.

$30? Have you SEEN the list of cars coming to the museum? That alone is worth $30.

However, as a PCA member there are two things that I think could have been handled better, both of which could be fixed by raising the entry fee. Don't make the volunteers pay, and fix the oversubscription problem. You don't make enough money on the entry fee to let the volunteers free-ride, and yet you have too many people who want to attend, just raise the entry fees by $30 and you fix that problem instantly.

Then people would start complaining that the entry fees are too high. There's just no pleasing some people.

Grady, I like your point about carrying the torch. I also like your idea about writing an article about something-or-other. Maybe a CMA walkthrough?

I'm not a PCA member for all the reasons given above, and I have given up instructing for NASA for a similar reason, only worse in my opinion. I don't do DEs I Race, and as an instructor for NASA (NCal specifically) you can drive in a DE for free, but if you want to Race, you get nothing (in SoCal you get a discount on the Race fee I have been told). I don't have the time or energy to teach, drive in a DE, and Race all in one weekend. When I asked about a discount up here in NCal, I was told I should instruct for the good of the sport, my answer was, IF NASA was non profit, I would, but NASA is for profit, and I don't volunteer to help someone else make money.

My point, PCA is not alone in its problems.

Jim