Fuel Pump or relay? 1977

[kach22i]

1977 2.7 L CIS with almost 100,000 miles.

I was out late the other night so I did not get gas on the way home. The car sat overnight near "E" as the temps dipped below freezing that night. In the morning it did not start on the first try, acted like it was not getting enough gas. It started on the second or third try, I filled up and drove it that day.

The next morning it was a bit chilly, turned over first try. As usual I warmed up the car, I typically have to give it some gas and keep it reving between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM until it will idle on it's own.

This has always been the way the car is, the shop said they blew air through something (cold start valve) and should just live with it as it could be anything.

Anyways, as I sat there engine running with the pop-off valve occasionaly letting me know it was not all warmed up.......................I sense a slight heave or sigh, and then an almost perceptable thrump as the engine suddenly dies.

I have run out of gas with other cars, and had a fuel pump or two go on me too - that's what it felt like.

It felt like the fuel pump died.

Relay?

I did a little search and found this:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=185563&highlight=fuel+pump

I admit, that I have not dredged through my books and most likely countless threads on this topic. However, before I start my day in earnest, do you all have any tips for me?

Which should I suspect first; the fuel relay switch, the fuel pump or even the Pertronix ignitor kit I installed last month?

1977 2.7 L CIS with almost 100,000 miles.

Note: The car cranks but will not start, tried it several times, don't want to kill the battery.

[Jim Sims]

Do the easy stuff first:

First check that the fuel pump relay (red one) is making a good connection; pull it out and, check contact pins for corrosion and reseat it. Next check the condition of the fuel pump fuse (No. 16?).

Then put car in neutral with parking brake on and turn the ignition key to the on (run) position. Then take off the air cleaner cover and filter element and lift the air flow sensor plate and listen for the fuel pump to start and feel (through the airflow sensor plate) if the FI system "stiffens" and whines as it pressurizes. If not, then you have a fuel pump problem. Do not hold the air flow sensor plate up for more than 3 or so seconds.

Jim

[kach22i]

Thanks Jim, just putting my coat on now to take a look............will get back to you later, cheers.

[Paulporsche]

Because you ran the tank so low, you may have picked up some rust, crud, or moisture. A fuel filter change may be in orderand/or a fuel injector cleaning.

Check the pump itself.

Also it sounds like you have been having typical AAR, WUR, cold control pressure/mixture symptoms. Time to dredge through those countless threads you mentioned.

[john walker's workshop]

also, see if the pop off is still in place.

[azasadny]

kach22i,

It's too cold to be worjking on the car! I drive my Targa to/from work today with the top down and it was more than a little cold! It still felt great and I drive the car every chance I get until early December! Good luck with the car, my '74 does exactly the same thing and I've replaced every component and the problem is intermittent, so I'll live with it.

[kach22i]

Things keep coming up, had my coat on and the wife said; Honey don't forget we have to blah blah blah today.

I will fix this car, just hope I don't put it off until spring.

[kach22i]

Back in mid-November (start of the Michigan Winter in earnest) I posted this thread

Originally posted by john walker's workshop
also, see if the pop off is still in place.

John Walker has once again been proven right.

Originally posted by azasadny
kach22i,

It's too cold to be worjking on the car!

azasadny was right, I had my coat on went out there and said the heck with this, put the cover on.

The long and short of it, the car died in my driveway while warming up for it's last ride of the year. The way it died I guessed fuel pump or fuel pump relay. It was too darn cold to go through the steps Jim Sims recommended until today.

The red fuel pump relay cap came off in my hand as I tried to work it free to check the contacts. With the plastic cover off I examined it's inner workings - looked like it had mini points in there, some kind of electrical contact. The contact must flick back and forth with a charge, as it looked like a spark plug or rotor with tarnish and burrs on it.

I cleared the prong of it's burrs and scraped it's contacts clean with a NO. 11 Xacto blade (each side). Also checked the other relays and fuses (they were okay).

I took off the air cleaner cover per Jim Sims directions so that I could hear the hissing of a working relay - and I found another problem. The Pop-Off valve had popped off - clean off. There was a perfect hole with epoxy ring intact and the valve laying off to the side. Gee I wonder if this had anything to do with why the car would not turn over? I shoved the valve back in the hole, a real tight fit - but I should re-glue it soon.

The shop put the valve in a year ago, and like the oil lines, tune up, clutch adjustment and so on, it was done wrong, came apart, leaked you name it. What a rat hole of a shop, never going back.

I cleaned off the battery post, put the battery back in the car (sat in the house all winter).

I turned the key - it started right up!

As I sat there gently tapping the gas to warm up the car, I thought - hey don't tap the gas, see if it stalls out like usual. It kept running - and very smoothly too.

The pop-off valve coming off was real problem, but cleaning up the fuel relay switch might of helped.

Meanwhile I found this other interesting thread.........I think I have my old rotor in a box in the basement - going to dig it out and see if I can fix another unresolved issue.
Rev limiting rotor causing low rpm hesitation

Topping it all off, the engine lid cover did not pop open today after a two hour drive, it always manages to pop open, guess I was having good luck today.

EDIT: I started it up this morning, still has a warm up peroid - sorry no magic fixes. Golf clubs are in the Porsche - winter is over, spring is here.