Motive power bleeder question...

[Hendog]

I'm using the Motive power bleeder. At what level should I have the fluid in the brake reservoir before attaching the Motive? I've done it with the reservoir at the full mark, but when I installed and pressurized the Motive it overfilled the resevoir and leaked out of the overflow tube out front of the car Please help with some step by step process for a successful bleed.

[Rot 911]

You are doing it correctly. You just need to pinch off the overflow hose that connects to the reservoir. Most of us just use some vice grips.

[David]

With the system pressurized there shouldn't be any leaks. Did you plug the vent line on the side of the reservoir? I set the fuel level to the full mark before attaching the Motive bleeder.

[Jim Sims]

Read the instructions on the side of the bleeder "as in pressure test the system before adding fluid". Bleeding fluid goes into the power bleeder tank not in the M/C reservoir. You will need to plug the overflow fitting/hose on the M/C reservoir. There are various ways to do this. Jim

[Jim Sims]

Here's what I do (for cars with each caliper having a single bleeder valve):

Gather tools and materials: floor jack (with wood piece on lift pad), jack stands(4), soft socket for wheel nuts, 100 ft-lb torque wrench, 1 liter Ate brake fluid (in a different color than currently in car), Motive pressure bleeder, small 7 mm and 8 (or 9?) mm box end wrenches, 8-10 " length of clear hose to fit over bleeder valve nipples, rubber cap or bit of rubber or plastic hose with one end plugged (golf tee, etc.), container to receive old brake fluid (small glass jar), metal can for old brake fluid disposal, cardboard box lined with plastic trash bag sufficient to hold motive bleeder, small stand or box to set glass jar on, old newspapers, paper towels and hand wipes. One may also consider having a spare bleeder valve available (some car use two sizes - front and rear can be different) and new rubber bleeder valve dust caps.

Place car with adequate space to work around vehicle (no tight garages). Loosen wheel nuts. Jack car up, place on jack stands and remove wheels. Put newspapers under each wheel position. Remove bleeder valve rubber dust covers and clean if reusing. Clean dirt off bleeder valves as required. Open front hood.

Brake fluid will be handled after this point; DONT GET IT ON YOUR PAINT! It will damage the paint and attempting to wipe it off will make the damage worse. Some attempt to blot or wash it off but the damage will still occur. Take your time. Wipe up spills (on floor, non-painted car chassis surfaces and tools) immediately and thoroughly. Watch your hands, clothes and shoes. Clean your hands often and don't touch or lean on the car (the reason for not having a tight garage).

Remove MC reservoir cap (debris screen under cap may be left in place) and vent hose (take care that you don't snap off the integrally molded hose barb) and install vent cap or bit of hose with golf tee or other plug. Place new fluid in Motive pressure bleeder (PB) tank, place bleeder in plastic trash bag lined box and place in front trunk area next to MC reservoir and attach Motive PB cap to MC reservoir. Pump up PB (follow instructions on PB) to around 10 psi (higher pressures may run the risk of blowing out the rubber bushings which seal the plastic lines from the MC reservoir to the MC. If you can't hold pressure check for a leak (MC reservoir cap, vent line hose barb plug, PB tank lid). Look for leak from MC area; if the plastic line to MC joint rubber bushings are bad there can be a leak from MC.

Starting at the wheel position furtherest from MC (RR in LH drive cars) place wrench over bleeder valve hex and attach clear hose to bleeder valve nipple. Place hose in jar (I sit the jar on a box or stand of some kind so it is at a convenient height). Open bleeder valve (take care to pull the wrench in the correct direction; the bleeder valves are on the inside of the calipers so one can get mixed up). If bleeder valve won't open and shows rust or corrosion spray the base of it where is screws into the caliper with "Kroil" or other penetrating oil (not WD-40) and wait 15 minutes and try again. The hose will want to twist as the bleeder valve is opened so take care that it stays in the jar and doesn't tip the jar over. Allow the brake fluid to flow until one obtains a full transition to the new brake fluid color. Close the bleeder valve; don't over tighten - I use small combination wrenches to limit my ability to over torque. Remove hose and wipe up any spilled fluid. Look for leaks from bleeder valve; if leaking tighten a bit more. If no leaks, install cleaned or new dust cap onto bleeder valve. Repeat at other wheel postions working towards MC (LR, RF and finally LF). I empty the jar of old brake fluid after each wheel position. If you put the full liter of brake fluid in the pressure bleeder you should have plenty of fluid to bleed the entire system but check that you always have enough fluid in the PB tank to keep its intake well covered (one can tilt and shim up the cardboard box to force the fluid to the intake side of the tank). Also check PB pressure; my experience is that I don't have to repump it much if at all. I usually make a second pass around the wheel positions to ensure I have exchanged as much fluid as possible in the wheel calipers.

When finished with all wheel positions depressurize the Motive PB by unscrewing ITS lid (follow instructions). DON'T UNSCREW THE MC LID FITTING FROM THE MC UNDER PRESSURE! Check brake pedal for firmness (CLEAN HANDS, CLOTHES AND SHOES! Wife or girlfriend in clean attire is useful for this task if they know what the brake pedal should feel like). Check all wheel positions for leaks. If needed add fluid to MC reservoir, replace MC reservoir cap (check cap for cracks and gasket if equipped with one). Remove vent cap or plugged hose piece and reinstall vent line. Remove Motive PB from trunk and remove surplus brake fluid from Motive PB and wipe it out with clean paper towels. Secure old brake fluid and surplus new brake fluid. Pick up newspapers under wheels. WASH HANDS!

Close front hood. Remount wheels, install lug nuts by hand and seat them well by hand using soft socket and using the cross-wheel tightening pattern. Lower car and torque wheel lug nuts to 50 ft-lbs using cross-wheel tightening pattern, repeat but torque to to 94 ft-lbs.

Test drive, starting out carefully as if you have no brakes. Test brakes with a gentle stop in driveway. After test drive look for leaks. Good Luck! Jim

[Hendog]

Thanks for the quick response. Jim, you sure gave me the detailed version as requested I appreciate it muchly.

[fastpat]

I almost always end up using about a full liter of fluid. I use ATE Gold 200, chemically the same as Racing Blue, but without the crappy dye. I used to use the Blue, but after it dyed every thing it touched to the point I couldn't see anything but blue fluid coming out, I stopped.

I'm a nubie on Porsche bleeding, does the hydraulic clutch on a 87-89 use the brake fluid reservoir as it's reservoir, or is it separate?

Oh yes, don't forget the drop tarp, prefferably a impervious plastic one, to catch the inevitable spillage from the bleeder. I drape the whole area under the reservoir.

Pat

[Brother]

great thread for info.

I was so close to buying the vacuum bleeder the other week. I'll get the motive instead.

[bill3667]

Yes, the clutch slave is fed from the same master cylinder. When you bleed the brake system w/ the Motive it's a good time to bleed the clutch slave, though I don't believe you need to do the clutch nearly as often as the brakes.

Bill W.

[fastpat]

I don't think the clutch circuit needs bleeding as often, but I do it anyway. Why not, the bleeder is hooked up, the car is in the air, and it's just one more bleeder screw.

[PCA7GGR]

Regarding the ATE Blue vs. the ATE "Gold" - I switch back and forth between them. When doing a fluid change from blue to gold, I bleed until the fluid turns green, At that point I know that the blue is gone and the fresh gold has replaced it (blue + yellow = green). When going to the blue from the gold, I bleed until the fluid turns blue.

[Por_sha911]

Clutch should be bleed every two years or less.

[KFC911]

I (and many others) prefer not to put brake fluid in the Motive, but use it to pressurize the system (not fill it with fluid)....here's a related thread. Just throwing this out as another option for you.

Modifying the use of my Motive pressure bleeder?