Stock seat belt placement on a 69

[Classic]

I've got a 69 911 and the PO drilled holes in the parcel shelf to fit seat belts.

I can see that there is a mounting point there on the shelf. next to where he drilled the holes? But there is also a threaded mounting point on the rear side wall the goes out under the rear fender.



I need to put new belts in once i finish the referb and wanted to know where were they fitted?

[jluetjen]

Classic, I'm confused by your question and your picture.
1) Was the PO using twin shoulder belts (basically a track 4, 5 or 6 point harness)?
2) Can't imagine why else holes would need to be drilled in the parcel shelf for belts. In my '69, there were pre-existing holes on either side of the rear seats for rear belts. Since my car was a European model, these were not used and had plastic plugs in them. There were no rear shoulder belts.
3) There were front shoulder belts mounted on the B pillars, as well as the lap belts.

Can you mark up your picture some to point at the holes that you are describing?

[Classic]

You can see the hole drilled by the PO it's just to the left of the factory mounting point. Sorry i can't put an arrow on it my edit software changes the picture format.

The car had 3 point Ford retractable seat belts mounted on an aluminium block, (to give the correct angle) mounted through the holes mentioned above, and secured with a nut in the engine compartment.

[jluetjen]

I'm not aware of there being 3 point seat belts in the back seat of any cars in 1969. Here's a picture of the back seat of my '69E.



The red arrows mark the factory lap belt mounts on either side of the seat. In the European cars these holes had plastic plugs in them. In the US cars I believe that they mounted belts (my belts are from a later 911). The blue arrow marks the location of what I suspect is a luggage hold-down-strap loop. The green arrow marks where there is a snap for attaching the strap for holding the seat up. Neither of these would be strong enough to hold a seat belt in my opinion without backing plates being added. I have the same opionion of the hole drilled by the PO in your car. As far as the hole in the stamped area between the PO's hole and the window -- I don't have a clue what that is.

[Classic]

Thanks John,

Yeah as you said mine has the plugs where the rear belts would be fitted, not fitted on this car, as it is euro spec.

heres a photo of what the PO fitted.



That's the inertia real for the front seats fitted to the rear shelf. which is what i'm trying to figure out.

Do you have inertia reel, lap belt or 3 point hangers?

PET doesn't have anything, and the restorers guid doesn't cover anything about belts.

[jluetjen]

That inertial real was not stock. You can just see the stock shoulder belt mount on my B-pillar. I've got the original style 3 points with the little hangers on the side of the cabin. It took me a year or so (and the help of this BBS) to figure out what those little hook things were all about.

[Classic]

Yeah thanks John, i just knew that they wern't stock. seeing that he had to drill the holes in the rear shelf.

Could you take a photo of your front seat belt set up. so i can figure out what i sould be looking for, so that i can replace them. thanks mate.

Cheers Tony

[jstobo]

You can put inertial reel in your 69. I just did mine. I always hated the fixed shoulder belts that were stock. The mounting bolt hole for the inertial reel is on the fender in the wheel well. You must remove the vinyl or leather quarter panel under the vent window to see it. It has a plastic plug. The threads are 7/16". Yea they aren't metric. The inertial reel mounts on the fender well the belt also attaches to the b piller and then through the normal mount brackets on the seat. Your PO made the installation more complicated than necessary. Good luck.

[Classic]

what do you need to do to your quater panel?

did you just fit it to the outside, or change it to the 74 ish style with the slot, and the built out section?

[jstobo]

There is a hole in the quarter panel where the mounting threads are; ie no backing. You cut out this area for the bolt. I just left the reel on the outside of the panel. Porsche made a panel upgrade to cover the reel like the 74's but I doubt you can get them anymore. Replacing with a later model panel would probably work. But I found because the back self is a lot different in the later cars than a 69 some trimming of the panel may have to be done. Look in the rear wheel well. Toward the front and relatively high is the hole for the seatbelt bolt. You will probably have to scrape some undercoating away. I inserted a screwdriver from outside and where it poked the vinyl located the holes for me. Good luck. Having inertial reels is so much nicer than my old stock fixed shoulder belts.

[jluetjen]

'Sorry Classic. I didn't mean to repeat the obvious. While I see the hole that you are describing, and the fact that it appears to be located in a stamped feature, I'm not conviced that that was designed as a seatbelt mount. One reason I say this is because the mounting bolt would be stressed in tension when generally you want to design things like seat belts to be mounted in sheer.

Are you sure that your car is a '69, or is it a '70 model which was manufactured in '69 (as about 25%-30% of them were). Here's a picture of what I believe to be the factory stock seatbelt set-up in my 69E (Karman coupe #51, so fairly early in the production run, most likely manufactured late in 1968). Note that I only use the seatbelt hooks for photo opportunities like this.

[Classic]

Thanks John,

yeah the car is a DEC 1969 i think i'll go with your set up i see that PEPparts is the belt supplier of choice.

Thanks for the photos and your advise.

[Fishcop]

My Australian delivered 69 had fixed sholder belts in the rear attached at the factory mounting point in your photo Classic. I recently replaced the inertia reel front belts that were in it with new Klippan units. I have all the originals (I think) in a box if you want them... I removed the rear belts when I went with my RS interior, and those points now anchor my 5 point harnesses.

[Classic]

Thanks John i think i may ahve confused everyone i was trying to figure out the front belts.

with the inertia belts you had in the front were they mounted to the out side of the quarter panel or did you have some thing else?

cheers

Tony

[jluetjen]

So I guess the question is here -- were Australian '69's delivered with a different factory seat belt set-up then the rest of the world (as opposed to ROW)? Did they come from the factory with inertial shoulder belts while the rest of us were getting the awkward manual adust units until a couple of years later?

[Fishcop]

Front inertia belts are fixed where John (the other one ) noted... on the B pillar, about 30cm up from the floor at a factory supplied attatchment fixture.

My car was butchered quite considerably over it's previous 30 years before I got it - so I can't rightly say what was true factory delivered equipment in 69.

[Classic]

yeah thanks guys its down the track i'm still Por15ing the floor but i think i'll go with the inertia reels that pep sell.

thanks for the imput