Remind me how to drive a front engined car again.

bento · bento's Garage

I am attending a high performance driving event at Thunderhill in two weeks and will be driving an ex-Speed Vision World Cup Touring BMW 328i. All of my on track experience has been in a 911 to date. I assume I can't rely on all of my "rear engined" driving techniques such as nailing the throttle without fail when the back end starts to step out. Can you advise me of what types of things I need to keep in mind when really pushing a front engined car?

First things that leap to mind are:
1) Front engine cars can be trail braked more (i think)
2) Understeer isn't likely to transition to oversteer quite as quickly as it does in my 911

Any other things to keep in mind?

Thanks for helping me to keep the shiny side up.

david

bigrubberjeep · 08-29-2005, 06:07 PM

Just turn yoru seat 180 degrees and face the rear window, walah! you got a Front wheel drive Porsche

Lukesportsman · 08-29-2005, 06:37 PM

* rear locks up much easier
* rear tires spin easier
* trail braking often used to get car to turn
* constant throttle to hold curve without standing on the throttle at apex
* less polar weight means it should save easier
* slow in/fast out not as applicable in the BMW case

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

The secrets for driving a 911 fast will still apply to the BMW. To be honest, "nailing the throttle" is most likely not the recipe for speed or recovery in either car. The BMW will most likely be a little bit more forgiving then the 911, but the fundimentals of managing the vehicle dynamics will be the same. Basically, if you are sensitive to what a 911 is doing, and rolling speed through the corners well, you won't have any problems doing the same things in the BMW.

Dantilla · 08-30-2005, 06:58 AM

I got my competition licence in a front-wheel-drive car. I was concerned, because I hate front wheel drive, and have driven them very little.

After the first couple track sessions, I figured out that the laws of physics are the same. Different techniques are required for autocrossing, but out on the track, as speed increases the differences narrow to nothing.

Learn the car slowly the first time out, and gradually build towards the limit. You'll be fine.

bento · bento's Garage

Just to clarify, the car is front engined, not front wheel drive.

Thanks for the tips, any more thoughts along the lines of Lukesportsman's?

db

deathpunk dan · 08-30-2005, 10:04 AM

I drive a modded 325is (1995, full suspension, M3 cams + exhaust + custom chip and intake + ltd slip

) and find that say, a 964, doesn't behave THAT much differently under normal street driving conditions.

The E36+ 3 series car with the Z axle rear suspension are just much more tolerant of really bad inputs/decisions than the pre-993 911s.

Echo the previous sentiment about easier to spin tires.

KobaltBlau · 08-30-2005, 10:18 AM

Small tip ... If you don't use trail braking regularly in your 911, don't go out trying to do it in the first lap in the BMW.

The car will be much more lift tolerant than a 911, but if you have power oversteer you will want to back off a bit where with a lower-mid powered 911 you can often just keep your foot in it.

That said, this car should have reasonable power delivery and very very capable suspension. I expect that you will take some time to work up to the limit, because the suspension/tires will be much more capable than your 911 since this is a dedicated speed touring race car.

Good luck, and be sure to report back with your "findings"!

bento · bento's Garage

There is no doubt that the limits of the suspension exceed my driving ability. I plan on trying my best to gradually work closer and closer to the line of adhesion.

Thanks for the tips Kobalt

db

KobaltBlau · 08-30-2005, 11:18 AM

with that pragmatic attitude, you will be totally fine.

I'm no expert, but you are welcome.

Early_S_Man · 08-30-2005, 02:38 PM

Throttle-steer still works great in a front-engine RWD car -- if it is set up properly, and if adequate power is available! Difference is, throttle off will be a 'PUSH' condition, or strong understeer.

jluetjen · jluetjen's Garage

Warren, you and I are often on the same sides of points, but this time I have to disagree. After racing a FWD in IT for a couple of years, -- at the limit -- a FWD car will understeer less as you back off of the throttle, and understeer more by applying more. If properly set up to rotate on corner entry, they can be made to corner quite well in a very controlled fashion. But at the end of the day they will be a little bit slower then a FE/RWD or RE/RWD car for the same weight and tire sizes.