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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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Hi, I JUST did this too... (along with a BUNCH of other stuff for the first time !)

Here's some of what I found

If you have (or have a friend that has) a shop press, buy him/her a case (or 2) of beer, and borrow it for as long as you are working on your car. I borrowed from a friend and it helped in so many ways I wouldn't have thought before having it handy...

Anyway; the heating the hub thing didn't really help me during the "remove the old race" phase.

Here's a sketch of what I'm talking about:



The small race (with the press) was cake to remove with the aid of a socket approximately the same diameter.

The problem is the large race. You can (as some say) to use a punch and drive it out, but you run a HIGH risk of dinging, scratching, or messing up the hub wall or worse the part of the hub wall that is the seat for the race... As you can see from the sketch, there is no way to get any solid object in there to press it out.

I had to stop by the local Porsche dealer on this one.... The (long-time) mechanic remembered this old tool box they had that was literally covered in thick dust and crud and hadn't been opened in quite a long time... He pulled this thing out...



I don't know what you call it, but if any of you know where to buy one let me know. I tried to buy it off him, he didn't know why, but didn't want to let it go right now...

Anyway, he said it was half of a 2 part tool and couldn't find the other part to simply "pull" the race out, so he inserted it inside the large race, tightened the bolt, which drove down the wedge expanding the diameter. Then he turned it upside down and put it on his press. Drove it out in 5 seconds....

Sorry I made this kind of wordy, and added a bit of the "story", but I usually find that part interesting when people do it for me...

Good Luck !!!

Fun Stuff, this Madness they call Porsche Ownership !!!
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Richard W.
Red '70 E, 2.2
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Old 04-15-2005, 06:38 AM
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Oh yeah, P.S.:

When you're putting in the new "seal" on the inside, be careful and don't press too hard, it is pretty easy to bend the seal trying to get it to go in further than it needs to and mess it up.

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Richard W.
Red '70 E, 2.2
White (w/ Red & Blue), '82SC, "Frankenstein" -a bit tweeked
Old 04-15-2005, 06:42 AM
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Richard:

The bearings and seals are on order, but now I'm a bit confused. I didn't realize that there were inner and outer bearings on the hub. At least I didn't see them when we pulled the wheel off (yes, I know, the other is behind). But the other wasn't mentioned to me.

If you order a "set of bearings" does that include the outer and the inner bearings? My assumption is that you want to replace both bearings at once.

larry
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Old 04-22-2005, 06:17 PM
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Richard is giving excelent advice. I have seen many times where someone has used a punch to drive out races and damaged the seat area of the race in the hub. What happens is that when you drive the new races into a damaged seat, the bearings will no longer run true and parallel. The rotor will wobble and to get all the bearing play out you will have to excessively tighten the bearings. The area where he notes "be careful" is extremely important.

An old trick is to weld a bead on the area where the bearing runs and let it cool. It will shrink and literally fall out....
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Old 04-22-2005, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by movin
Regarding hand packing grease into bearings, do not use your bare hands! Wear gloves. If you don't you will contaminate the grease with your salty sweat from your hands, that's a fact. This can lead to pitting and premature failure.
What did mechanics do before they invented latex?
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Old 04-22-2005, 07:27 PM
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Hi, Sorry I've been away for a few days...

I believe that all 911s have two front bearings (inner & outer) and the oil/grease seal.

The rears are different depending on the year/model, i.e. my '70 E has only one rear bearing per side, but I believe 930s have an inner/outer/seal arrangement in the rear like the front...

I've never ordered a bearing"set" but it would make sense that it would come with everything..

I'm sure each bearing comes with it's own race, and then there's the seal. Another thing to think about... Some people will try to talk you into just reusing the races that are installed and that they will "fit" your new bearings fine.... They will (probably)come "close" to fitting, and if you ONLY use your car for shows and barely drive it you MAY be ok. BUT if you drive it quite a bit, or auto-X it AT ALL or anything you will stand a very good chance of messing it up if you re-use the race. At least that is my conclusion from what I've heard...
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:25 AM
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Richard:

Yes, I know that you are right. Bearings and races come as part of a "bearing set." I wouldn't reuse the races. After all, the bearing is running in the race. If it is scored and pitted, then the old race is damaged as well. Putting new bearings in old races would just subject the new bearings to damage from the old races.

I'll let you guys know how it goes. Just a few weeks till I actually do it.

larry
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Old 04-23-2005, 04:39 AM
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Heat NOT Beat...

I think its about time for a repost of this:

I know this is beating a dead horse but I think some people are missing the point on why you heat the hubs up. It's not just to make it easier - it's to preserve the tolerances of the hub. Read this post to the 944 list by Bruce Carr of Ebearings.
-Chris

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Front Wheel Bearings

Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:53:24 -0500

Author: "Bruce A. Carr"
Subject: Front Wheel Bearings

Stop! You guys are killing me!
If I hear one more "whack it with a hammer", to get the
front bearing races in or out, I'll have a heart attack
and die. You don't want that, do you?
Here's the deal.
With SOME cars, you can just whack out your wheel bearings
with whatever is handy. Like your old Chivvy Caprice.
That is NOT the case with your precious 944.
The only proper way to remove the outer races (the thingie
parts without rollers) from the hubs is to heat the hubs up first.
Then the only proper way to put new ones back in is to heat
the hubs up first (and, if needed, use a real bearing press with
real tools and which pushes straight).
If you do it any other way on these cars, you might as well
just FedEx your entire credit card collection to George B. and be
done with it.
Okay, you might get away with whacking them once, but that
method WILL take tens of thousands of miles off your hub life
(not bearing life, the hub thingie they're mounted in).
Here's why.
Your hubs were engineered and machined ONLY for the bearing
outer races to be removed and/or installed by first heating the
hub. The reasons for this are quite numerous, but mostly they boil
down to the types of materials used, the press fit needed, the
size "set" the outer race takes, and the "roundness" that has to
be maintained. It's all messy, so just believe me and we'll go
on from there.
Here's what happens when you don't heat the hubs and just the
outer races in and out with a nail punch or something similar. When
you whack the race out of the hub, you're actually moving material
in the hub...that's not designed to be moved. We're talking
thousandths of an inch here where the hub is completely ruined...
nothing you can see. Oh, and you'll make it egg-shaped by a couple
tenths of thousandths, to boot. Every time. You can't help it. Since
even the worst POS bearings are made to hundred-thousandths
tolerances, this is not a Good Thing.
If you whack a new bearing race in, you're doing the same
thing, except in reverse and maybe a bit straighter this time...
but don't count on it. You'd be surprised what's happening down at
the thousandths-of-an-inch level when you're in the garage trying to
eyeball it with a sledge and a piece of driftwood.
Okay, even if you only do it just once, the press fit is gone,
destroyed, gone forever, never again what it is designed and machined
to be. We're not talking the whack-in, whack-out liberties you
could take with your old Chevy Caprice...this is a genuine German
engineered thingamajig and machined to tolerances Chevy never
heard about until they started taking apart German cars.
What are the consequences, other than the bearings no longer
running true (also not running precisely parallel to each other, a
whole 'nother topic (called cranking) for another day)?
Sooner or later, and MUCH sooner if you log any track time,
the outer race (probably of the inner bearing first) will start to
turn in the hub.
At that point, there isn't anything you can do except call
George B. or one of the other guys, tell them you need new hubs and
beg for mercy from Visa.
The reason those hubs are so expensive? Well, besides that
they're carrying Porsche part numbers...the extensive and exacting
machining work, especially to...you guessed it...the areas where the
bearings press in.
So the ONLY proper way to do the front wheel bearings on your
944 is to take the entire unit to someone who will heat the hub to
the right temp, pop the outer races out and pop new ones in, all using
the proper tools and such. The hub should be allowed to cool down
slowly and evenly, sitting on a shop bench is fine, as long as it's
not in a breeze that would cause uneven cooling (i.e. warps, stress
risers, and so on.)

Personal Story: My car had one side front wheel bearings done
by the PO, and they used a press but no heat. When I did all of the
bearings 40k later at 100k, we found the hub with the original bearings
was right on spec, but the one they worked on is borderline. It'll
last another 40k-50k or so on the street, but I had to put it on the
passenger side so I could run DE's at Mid-Ohio.

I saw one post here where the fella said the outer race was
scored, but new inners were used anyway. There isn't even space to
go into why I'm pulling my hair out. Just one: the rollers in that
bearing can easily be whacking that high/low spot about 100 times a
second. Guess how long it takes to cause a failure at that rate?
And, no, you can't mix and match bearing parts. Every manufacturer
(and even every production run) has all the angles, finishes, backface,
etc., etc., just slightly different. Mix manufacturers, and it's
likely your inner and outer race angles can be off by a degree or more!

Okay, enough preaching. I will remove my robes now.

Bruce A. Carr
eBearing.com
88 944na OH BBLURR
74 X1/9
71 510
91 Accord
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Old 04-23-2005, 05:06 AM
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Chris, (and /or Mr. Carr) How is the hub heated in the proffessional environment? And to what temperature?
Jt
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Old 04-23-2005, 08:51 AM
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Thanks Chris, more "whacking" guilt.

I did heat/freeze for install but not for removal

Thanks for the info tho, good justification for a future press purchase
Old 04-23-2005, 09:10 AM
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I understand the heating thing, and can see how it would work. So, do you use the wife's oven? And how do you cool the race that is in there so that it pops out? Does it really pop out, or still need to be pushed?

And if you heat the hub before installing the new race, does it still need to be press fit inside?

So many questions. So little knowledge.

larry
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Old 04-24-2005, 05:46 AM
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Garage
I just did this job on my 944 and this is what worked for me...

I don't know about the heating-the-hub thing to get the races out. Didn't try it. Maybe heating it makes it easier to tap out. Couldn't hurt.

The smaller race can be tapped out with an appropriately sized socket like rexav8r said.

The large race can be Carefully tapped out with a brass drift. Get the set from Sears with 3 diameters of drifts. Put the hub on a solid piece of wood. I used a 2x8 scrap on a cement floor. Catch the edge of the race with the drift and whack it with a hammer. One whack at a time, work your way around the edge of the race. It takes a while, but it will come out and if you are careful, no damage.

Installation: Throw the races in the freezer over night. Clean the hubs with degreaser/brake cleaner. I put the hubs in the gas grill in an old pot so they did not get any direct flames. The grill was at 350-400 for about 2 hours. I would avoid the kitchen oven. It will start to stink.

The large inner race just dropped in. Be careful to drop it in square. It expands on contact, so if it's dropped in askew, you'll have to drift it in the rest of the way.

The smaller race dropped in only about half-way. I then took the old race and tapped it into the hub until the new race was flush with the hub lip. I then had to CAREFULLY brass-drift it the rest of the way.

If you have any questions then PM me and I'll try to explain.
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Old 04-24-2005, 06:12 AM
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Chris Bennetts's quote of Bruce Carr is right on the money.

If you are short on any of the tools to do the job correctly just clean everything up and take the hubs to a qualified shop for the removal and insertion of the races. It will not cost much money and you will get the job done properly.

You can get the job done with sockets and punches but the hubs will be damaged and result in premature failure.

Respecting the proper procedures of Porsche maintainance is also part of the fun.
Old 04-24-2005, 09:10 AM
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I agree with Bob agreeing with what Bruce said...
But, don't assume a shop will do them correctly. Years ago I took my hubs to a machinist and watched him bang them out with a metal punch (scratching the bore). Then he "cleaned up" the burr he'd made using his pocket knife. I guess what I'm saying is you should ask how they are going to do it or you may be disappointed.
-Chris
"Um, German ethnic food honey."
-What I told the wife when she smelled the hub warming in the oven.
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Last edited by ChrisBennet; 04-24-2005 at 12:17 PM..
Old 04-24-2005, 10:02 AM
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Clean all the old grease out before the hub goes in the oven. The heat will make it run right out and leave a nasty stain in your oven. Lotsa smoke too.

I'm a little skeptical on freezing the races. The second they touch the hub they heat right up. I do it anyway.
Old 04-24-2005, 10:52 AM
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