Changing Brake Fluid?

[vesnyder]

Do you guys change/flush the brake fluid in your daily drivers? I have a ten year old Toyota that still has the original brake fluid and it looks pretty old - what do you guys do?

I know this is not directly Porsche related, but indirectly becasue I change the brake fluid on my 911??

Thanks in advance!

[emcon5]

Change it. Brake fluid is cheap.

Tom

[IROC]

Due to the hygroscopic nature of brake fluid (absorbs water), it will corrode your braking system from the inside out if you don't change it (on any vehicle) every couple of years or so.

Mike

[LakeCleElum]

Most manafactuers recommend every 2 yrs. I have a friend that teaches Auto Mechanics at a local trade school. He checked students daily drivers in the parking lot one day for mositure in the brake fluid. A full 100% were over the acceptable limit; whatever that is...

[makaio]

Flush it real good with new brake fluid, then bleed it a few times to make sure it's all clean and you will be amazed at the difference.

[wholberg]

Every time I bleed the brakes, I run enough fluid through to completely flush the entire system.

For one reason or another, I have never gone more than 2 years between flushes.

[sammyg2]

Old brake fluid gets diluted with moisture which does two things:
it causes corrosion and premature component failure as previously mentioned, and it reduces the boiling point of the fluid significantly.
Prolly not a problem on a daily driver toyota but on a porsche that sees track time it is a big problem.
I learned this lesson the hard way, I boiled the fluid at streets of willow when I first got the car.
Back straight, 95 mph, down hill, pedal went to the floor. Yikes. I cranked the wheel back and forth to scrub off speed, then downshifted and the back end came around, I came to a stop in the dirt with no damage except to my ego. That was much better than the gully that I would have went into if i had kept going in the same direction.
No, I didn't think about using the emergency brake, things were happening too fast for logic from my limited knoggin

Please note that this applies to DOT 3 and 4 (alcohol based), but not to DOT 5 which is silicone based and does not absorb water in the same way.
Having said that, don't pour DOT 5 into a system that has the other style, they are not interchangeable and will not mix!

[Blanco]

You could go with the speed bleeders for your daily driver.

[Rick Lee]

I'd start shopping for new brake lines and be prepared for a caliper rebuild and a new MC too. 10 yrs. on the same fluid is insane. In fact, I don't know why they don't make that part of a state safety inspection. I flush my SC brakes before every track event, even if it's two in one month. 993 is now retired from track duty, but will still be flushed every 6 mos. Pickup truck is once a year. My SC just had a very hard three days of track duty and pedal was rock solid at 115 mph on the back straight at Mid Ohio. Brake fluid is CHEAP. Losing your pedal is expensive.

[RC-Escape]

Rick,

It appears you have a lot of experience flushing brake systems, hopefully you won't mind sharing some knowledge:

1) what's your step-by-step method of "flushing" the brake system. I know how to "bleed" brakes, but I've never "flushed" a system.

2) what brand/type of brake fluid do you use? You indicate "it's cheap", but that ATE stuff is expensive.

Thanks in advance for your response!

-- Rick

[Rick Lee]

ATE Blue or Gold is a whopping $10-$12 a liter. If you're on Pelican, you can afford it, especially if it's only once every.......10 yrs!!!!! Though I don't know if it's appropriate for your Toyota. Flushing means replacing the complete existing fluid with new fluid. I usually just alternate bewteen Blue and Gold. That way you can see the color change in the bleeder tube and you know when the old is out and the new is in. I have speed bleeders on my newly rebuilt calipers, use a Motive Power Bleeder AND have someone work the pedal for me too. Call me crazy, but I take brakes very seriously and mine always come through when I need them.

[vash]

pcar with a motive is ok-easy. i dont know if the toyota has a screw on cap on the MC, but chevy trucks dont. i am gonna do my pickup truck this weekend just because this thread got me thinking/worrying. but i do typically remove what is in my reservoir and add fresh to dilute the mess. i borrowed a mity-vac from a friend. or maybe push the fluid thru via the vent hose and my motive. 10 years is long, but i bet 80% of the cars out there are doing it.

[randywebb]

"I take brakes very seriously"

- We all should. IF the engine blows up you are only out $10,000 to $20,000 max. If the brakes fail, you are either dead or will be paying a lot more for surgery. Surgery is expensive and painful, and so is rehab.

The tires are the other really serious safety item, along with less obvious things like the ball joints and other suspension parts. Sure, we're all attracted to the engine... but think of the important things first.

Never let the brake fluid go past 3 years w/o following the instruction above to flush it out. Also replace any rubber hoses in the brake system every 5-10 years. IF you don't know HOW old these items are, then replace them.

[VaSteve]

I maintain all my cars a lot better now that I am on this board and have learned a lot. I just checked and was relieved to find out my Jeep (with 74000 miles) had it done as part of the last major service.

Whew.

[Craig 930 RS]

As a purveyor of Pagid brake pads, it kills me......just flubberflabbergasts me that people cheap out on brake fluid.

I've seen a 1992 Turbo go off track with 8 year old fluid in the veins....totaled. Hospital.

How much have you spent on your P-car? How much is fluid?
Not much.

[randywebb]

I agree -- and remember the other people on the hwy are "most people."

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

99.99 percent of all the cars that successfully run up and down the highways in this country--and have for a century--go to the junkyard with the same brake fluid the manufacturer put into them. I'm not saying it's right--and I remember a friend who happened to be the Technical Editor of Car and Driver at the time, laughing at me when I said I was changing out the brake fluid in my daughter's Neon--but it's one of those things that probably should be way, way down the list of our concerns. Better you should worry about whether a mouse will chew through your house's wiring somewhere and start a fire, or whether a piece of "blue ice" will fall off an airliner's lavatory vent somewhere directly above your head.

Stephan

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson
99.99 percent of all the cars that successfully run up and down the highways in this country--and have for a century--go to the junkyard with the same brake fluid the manufacturer put into them. I'm not saying it's right--and I remember a friend who happened to be the Technical Editor of Car and Driver at the time, laughing at me when I said I was changing out the brake fluid in my daughter's Neon--......Stephan

Are you sure that he wasn't laughing at the fact you, being a car guy, let your daughter buy a Neon?

[Craig 930 RS]

Kind of like, say, washing a Yugo?

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Actually, her twin-cam Neon Sport (which I bought, she being 16 then) was an excellent car. Have you driven one?

Stephan