Source for A/C lines in bulk near L.A.?
 

Im looking into the costs for doing my whole A/C system with new hoses and was wondering if anyone knows a good source for A/C lines in bulk near los Angeles

I think many auto parts houses carry bulk hose. Also, there's a company in Arizona (the name escapes me at the moment) that will sell you the correct bulk hose in the proper lengths. Also, contact HughR here on the board. He had hoses made up locally and might be able to give you a source for bulk hose.

When it comes time to put the ends on them, I've used a guy at California Tube & Hose (or Hose & Tube) in the Northridge/Reseda area. He's really good, and reasonably priced.

I bought my hoses from Griffiths, and paid WAY too much. You might consider www.rennaire.com. Ron Maxwell is now making up hoses and he's selling the entire kit for $369. At that price, it might make sense not to have to hassle with bulk hose and then having fittings put on them. Ron's a good guy!

Good luck. Let us know what you do.

I've been trying to "negotiate" with Griffiths on a system since last summer. Though they have been pretty firm ( I won't say stubborn) on their pricing, they have been really helpful, explaining the pro's and cons' of various approaches, no hard selling but very helpful.

I asked him if he would simply sell me the rear fender condenser without hoses and he said the reason they sell the package with hoses is because two hoses need to be changed to connect the system in series with the stock condensers, and since the car has nearly 40 some feet of hose you might as well replace them all since the two underneath the car usually crushed by lift pads.

What I'm negotiating is the condenser with fan attached, mounting brackets attached, vibration mounts and hardware (apparently he is using all stainless steel brackets and nuts and bolts), stone guard, electrical wiring (something about a relay and fuse) and installation instructions, the two necessary hoses in the new barrier stuff to connect the thing. He said I should install a high low pressure switch? which they build into the a new hose between the compressor and condenser, I told them I'd wait on that. And they usually include a new drier. I said I was gonna try the Pro Cooler thing and asked them if it would work with their system. They said they never needed to use it but it could tie in easily. They also have some type of improved evaporator gasket kit that comes with it the package. I told him I don't want to replace my evap. They said its up to me if I want to replace it but they do suggest that I remove they evap to clean it, so what the heck the gasket kit is included.

I told him up front that I read the boards and none of us want to shell out $2k just yet. He said he understood and they were developing a basic kit for us budget minded drivers. It looks like they have a new condenser design, serpentine, and that will be what I get. I'm shooting for under $1,000.00, after reading all the posts about hacking front fenders for the C2 condenser and all the running around I figure $1k is worth it for a bolt on system that works.

$1,000 is REALLY spendy. If you're handy you can probably do the whole project for half of that. Charlie is a very knowledgeable guy, but he is very expensive.

Here's a little something to whet your appetite to build your own set-up for the rear wheel area. This will fit in front of the left rear wheel.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1116338103.jpg

If you're thinking about putting one behind the rear wheel, do a search here on the board. Someone (I forget who) recently fabbed up his own for a LOT less money than the Griffiths unit.

Good luck!

da911enginear,

Follow this thread for a cheap yet equally effective alternative to Griffiths's condenser.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176468&highlight=conden ser+dimensions

Also, Scottb is correct in pointing you torward Rennaire for the hoses, fr the price, quality and service you can't beat Ron.

And Bill's too modest to say that he did a great job on his rear fender condenser!

No, I'm not. I did a fine job!

hey, Bill..Did I miss something? SOunds like you got your system up and running. How about a report on the results and 'if I where to do it again"..thanks

Jared, call a few local AC or brake shops and find out who they use for hoses.

Griffiths Kuehl System
 

Interesting condenser you got there. I thought about designing something myself, giving this thing a lot of thought and this is what I came up with.

1) There are only so many hours in the day and though I would enjoy enginearing or copying someone's idea, frankly I would rather be driving my car than spending time figuring out how to copy Griffiths system. I just want a reliable bolt on system that works.

2) I can find lots of different condensers on the web I think I can fit in there, and god help us if we need to go the Ebayer route, but talkin with Charlie I realized they really got this down pat. After reading their customer comments I came up with my own questions and talked with him for nearly a half hour. Apparently they have redesigned the rear condenser and made many improvements. They use to use a tubin fin or something like that and now it is serpentine. I know I can rig up some brackets but looking at their set up I wont' have to fool around, the brackets are stainless too which I kinda like since I don't want anything rustin out.

3) Yeah, the Griffiths system is more expensive then making my own, but what the heck, it is a Porsche!
I don't want to put any cheap crap in my car that looks like a hack job. I want a system that bolts in and blows cold and I someone to call if I run into a problem.

4) I checked out hose price thing and talked to a local guy who can make them up for me. But I gotta get lengths and something about fitting types. Again, I dont' have time to drive back and forth. I just want to bolt the sucker on and cruise.

5) I looked at the Renn something evaporator, it looks kinda funky in the pictures compared to the Griffiths unit.
Yeah its alot cheaper but I think the Griffiths unit is suppose to have more coils or more surface area.

Bottom line, I might be able to save $500.00 or maybe more hacking together something on my own or usein what you got here but my time is more valuable.

I'll stick around and check out anything new you got but Summer's here guys, time to chill.

The Rennaire stuff looks every bit as good as Griffiths, and at a much lower price. Charlie's stuff is first rate, but expensive. For $369, the Rennaire hose kit is a great deal. Why mess with having a local shop "hack" something together when, for a reasonable price, you can buy everything pre-cut to fit the car from a company that deals almost exclusively with the 911? I thought the Rennaire evaporator looked every bit as good as Griffiths at, again, a lower price. It wouldn't surprise me that they both source it from the same vendor.

It's your money, but this is my $.02. :D

Jared, try www.ackits.com they're in arizona. bulk hose is $1.71 ft in either standard or reduced-size barrier hose. They also have a great a/c tech forum.

I've looked at Renn evap unit on their site, counted their coils and compared it to Griffiths unit on their site. The Griffiths looks like it has more coils and looks thicker. I called Griffiths and asked him the difference. He said he prefers not to comment others stuff, good or bad. But he did tell me about their unit, how it was developed. How many they have sold. What cars are running them, warranty, how to install. It sounds like they know their stuff. He said they are in their 3rd change with improvements and the latest one they got puts out the most btu's per square inch or something. Anyway it sounds like they did not not dream this stuff up overnight. No heavy sales pitch. Just answered my questions and made some good suggestions.... and he did not send me a bill (ha ha). Bottom line, though the Renn unit is "cheaper" in price, the Griffiths unit looks solid and bigger. Bigger is better and it means I can get more cold air.

Yeah I could probably save a couple bucks buying the hoses from Renn. Or borrowing a crimper and getting hose and such on (choke) Ebayer (You can always find something cheaper somewhere else.) Then I could get the other stuff from Griffith. But then you end up buying a little here and a little there, getting this to match that, calling this guy, paying this credit card, etc. I'd rather get one package from one place that I know works, something turnkey, bolt it in and go onto something else.

And I thought about the ProCool thing. Sounds really interesting but after reading all the forums it seems that either it works or it does not work. I dont' have the time to screw around with 50/50 chances of something "maybe" working. What I dont' understand is why I don't see that thing installed in new cars. BMW's don't have um. Porsche dont have um. GM, Mercedes, Chrysler .. etc. nobody uses it. If it is suppose to be the the next best thing to pop tops on beer cans you'd think someone would buy the patent or copy it. Heck, if I had a copy on it and it did work I would be retired and let someone else work on my car. I love the idea of recovering wasted energy but not my own.

I checked out a buddies car yesterday that has all the Griffiths stuff in it. He said he bought it as one package and was gonna have someone install it all, but after reading the instructions he figured he could do it himself. I asked him how hard it was and he said the hoses take the longest to install. I asked about the ones go in through the engine compartment and he said it looked hard but only took a minute to get them through. He showed me, its nothing. Yeah, he layed out some good bucks but I've seen more money wasted on stereo systems that sound like junk. Those rear condensers are top quality (nothing like the stuff on the links here) and the mounts were perfect, the thing looks like it came out of the factory. His 911 was blowin cold and it was mid 90's hot and humid in a black on black. With the two of us in the car he had to turn down the thermostat and the fan. He's got the really neat fan speed control that Griffit makes, any speed you want, and he's got the vents too.

So I'm going with good standard engineering practice on this one, even though you guys look like you are having fun with this stuff. Watch out, you may have Walmart knocking at your door chasing your ideas.

If it works don't mess with it, and, don't try to re-invent the wheel. Griffit has it all worked out. I'm sold.

I enjoy trying to makes things better and if I can find a less expensive (not cheaper) way then I'll go for it. But when you see this stuff it makes you wonder why bothter. In the mean time I can think of other places to save bucks, like on "no stereo", who needs one when you got a nice sounding exhaust!

Jared

Go to Lucas Auto Air Conditioning in Van Nuys. 14155 Oxnard Street. (818) 782-3501. If your going to be adding a subcooler (procooler) you'll need extra condensors to get rid of the waste heat. Lucas can custom make the hoses for you, and they're about 2/3 the cost of going to a NAPA dealer to have them made. I made a Jim Sims subcooler for about $25 plus two custom hoses one from the R/D to the subcooler, and another from the evaporator to the subcooler. You'll also be using two different sizes of hose #6 and #8 if I remember correctly.

I'm glad you've got the cash to be sold on Griffith's stuff. As I've said, it's top notch, but spendy. Most of us on the board like to try to save a few bucks with the same or better results. A good example is Don Plumley's effort at building a center vent. Griffiths gets $150. I think Don spent about $20 for the parts, and invested a few hours of his time.

My car is a Targa (no insulation in the roof). I installed a front left condenser/fan assembly, a ProCooler and Griffiths hoses. I sourced a rebuilt Nippondenso compressor from a local rebuilder. My car blows mid-to-high-30s in 90+ degree California weather. I couldn't be happier.

By the way, my Giffiths' hoses did not fit perfectly. If I had my own crimping equipment, I might have been cutting and putting new ends on. But, since you're sold, good luck!

scott b, I sense in all your posts that you are a walmart shopper, maybe you should go back to griffit and ask them for a refund, you know like the walmart porsche guy in florida that advertises he'll beat any price. Like I said I prefer to research it, find the median and go for it, lifes to short to complain. I bought their Kuehl vent for $139.00 this year, same price they quoted me two years ago and same price tweeks sells it for. I guess he knew you had deep pockets
flyin wirly birds.

I like this idea Jared has about building an after cooler to recover cold evap outlet gas. My friends outlet pipe on the Griffiths sytsem was basically frosted knee deep. I'll have to catch up with Jared on this approach.

thanks for the cool post, mr. griffith..! ;)
ryan

Let's see...I drive a Lexus, have an Acura as my spare car, and have a Porsche to drive on the weekends. I live in a gated community, and fly my own helicopter as a hobby. Yup, Mr. Enginear (sp), you've got me pegged perfectly.

My 84-year-old Dad taught me long ago that "anybody can get a single scoop of ice cream for a nickel, but it's the smart ones who get a double for that price." Enjoy your single scoop!

lol...late at night...i live for this stuff. touche boys! just let me know the FINAL VERDICT on the right way to do the a/c..i'm in the same boat..wanting barrier hoses, unsure of value of procooler, but still listening, interested in serpentine condenser..have a b.s. in chemistry, but i can't tell you whether propane, brisbane or xylocaine will explode in my car, but may as well 'run with the r-12 that keeps brungin' me'..somebody let me know. i gotta run now..wal mart is good to go at about 1 am...
ryan

Isn't this too "Walmart" for you?

I don't usually get involved, but let me say da911enginear that Scottb is a very helpful member of this board I don't take kindly to your random punches. We're all Porsche guys here, be nice........you just got here!(7 posts):)

Ryan: Here's what I did, and I'm getting mid-to-high 30s out of my vents on a 85-90 degree California day.

1. Replaced all my hoses with Griffiths barrier hoses. (If I had it to do all over again, I'd use Rennaire.)

2. Installed a rebuilt Nippondenso compressor (same as stock). Reused my clutch.

3. Replaced the receiver/drier with a ProCooler.

4. Cleaned and re-sealed the evaporator box using a kit from Griffiths. Money very well spent. While the box was open, I cleaned the evaporator's tubes and fins.

5. Installed a condenser/fan assembly in the front left fender, and relocated an aftermarket washer bottle to the trunk.

6. Had the system professionally evacuated and recharged with R12.

Was it the ProCooler that made the difference? The auxiliary condenser/fan assembly? Both? Neither? I have no way of knowing. The bottom line is that it all works.

I hope this helps. Have a double scoop, it's on me!! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/.../icescream.gif

Mike, here's one for you too, buddy! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/.../icescream.gif

Agreed. Appolgeeze to Scottb. Comment was not ment to be a punch, simply a jest.

Let's move on.

Anyway, you got real good results with home brewed. And I find it interesting.

What I'd like to know has anyone explored sealing off the deck lid condenser to get more cfm across it ? Here is were home brewing could pay off.

Is there a better ac thermostat device for the cockpit and evap out there?

to scottb, you pm box is full, could not send to you,

the answer is "yes, seal off (mask) deck cond.

would sealing off around the rear deck condenser restrict engine cooling, even by blocking that little amount? i have no aux oil cooler, so i have to be mindful of anything that might impede cooling.
ryan

Even though the entire bottom of the engine is open, I fear that doing anything that decreases the flow of air to the engine compartment will result in increased engine temps. They don't call 'em "air cooled" for nuthin', ya know?

not sealing off the entire air inlet through the deck lid, but rather sealing around deck lid condenser so air moves through the condenser rather than around it.

You could use some of that expanding foam in a can to seal off the condensor - I think it's called Great Stuff"!

right..i understood that..i just meant that what sir doesn't go directly through the condenser is still pretty important for engine cooling flow. blocking off around the condenser doesn't seem like it would 'help the condenser flow' to me.
ryan

i'm "assuming" since Porsche surrounded the engine with a seal, they had two things in mind, dirt and weather. If they thought they needed more air "cool" for intake and air cooling they would "bypass' the condenser with another path (excluding the design of the decklid to rear body or fender panels). And we'll assume that at sometime when the consumer pushed sales to get air in the car there may have been some reluctance between engine engineering and comfort engineering. Since there was no frontal area for a condenser they adapted the deck lid approach. Assume as well that someone in the engine group did testing on the engine temp rises with the deck lid condenser and they "blessed" the beast unwillingly.

I guess the true test will be to do something like holding some smoke around the seam or joiner where the deck lid meets the rear panels and rev the engine and watch for the pull. Then maybe mask off those same entrances as well as the large open areas where the deck lid condenser mates up. In between do a before and after of engine oil temps with an accurate probe.

Just a thought.........

However don't use the GREAT STUFF....... Why?
Because we all know better.