Cop calls yellow 911 red. Do I get off?

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Got a speeding ticket from a New York State Trooper--80 in a 55--coming back from Watkins Glen in my 911SC track car a couple of weeks ago. (Yeah, 80 in a 55 sounds terrible, but it's in fact a broad, nearly untrafficked, widely divided rural four-lane--Route 17--on which the speed limit shifts between 55 and 65 every 30 miles or so. And when you find yourself running in traffic, you'll note that everybody is doing 80 anyway. There wasn't another car in sight for a mile in either direction--other than the cop's Crown Vic--when I was tagged.)

Anyway, I've already pled not guilty because I'm going to make the two-hour round trip to court and hope for the usual downgrade of the ticket in exchange for showing up, which is what typically happens hereabouts, but I just noticed that on the supporting deposition, the trooper has recorded the color of the car as "red." It couldn't be more yellow--yellowbird yellow, in fact, which is plainly stated on the registration (and I'd bring a photo of the car...plus the car itself, if they care).

Does this mistake automatically get me out of the ticket, or if I try that is the JP going to just roll his or her eyes and say, "Gimme a break, red, yellow, what does it matter?"

Informed opinions only...

Stephan

[clay1g]

You should get off quite easy. As anyone knows, the most important information a cop takes down is not the make, model, year of car or the tag number -- it's the color of the car.

It should be well worth a 2 hour round trip to plead your case.

[Joeaksa]

Lets see... you admit to speeding and now want to get off scott free because the cop for some reason put the wrong color on the ticket?

Be a man. You were speeding and got caught! Try to plea it down and pay the money.

Joe A

[mjshira]

17 sux. it is such a fast road and changes speed limits often. It is a natural speed trap and I would be willing to bet that they change the speed limits thru there to create opportunity to catch people.

I don't think however that this will be of any help to you. The best you could hope for is to show up for court, explain to the judge that the changing in speed limits contributed and see if they will reduce the fine.

I was able to get simular dispensation from a ticket on the Garden State parkway. Most people don't show up to court and they just pay. When you show up the judge normally will be amiable to some reduced sentence.

I am no expert. But I knew the road, and know the area. Recommend you get a V1. It has saved me numerous tickets.

Good luck

[TerryH]

sorry, I'm usually called uniformed....

What might go against you is "There wasn't another car in sight for a mile in either direction--other than the cop's Crown Vic--when I was tagged.)"

If there had been other traffic, you could offer to judge, "The officer clocked a red car going 80 and pulled me over in error." It is plausible to plead this anyway.

[patkeefe]

The problem is that if you get offered the plea deal for a reduced infraction such as 'Failure to Obey a Traffic Instrument", you can't try the "it's yellow, not red" defense. One or the other.

I'm not a lawyer, but a fellow offender. I have also had a speeding ticket which was given to me by a local Warwick cop many years ago. A guy passed my buddy's house at about 120 when I was leaving...he almost hit me...I get about 200 yards down the road, and a cop stops me for speeding! I have ten witnesses standing on the lawn at my pals house, cop says "tell it to the judge". The judge threw it out based solely on the name of the ticketing officer (he rolled his eyes and said case dismissed).

It's his word against yours, and he obviously didn't pay attention to the detail of color...credibility issue. Red Porsche passed you at 80 just before you got the ticket?

Good luck!

[carmen78sc]

I tried this in MD years ago and had no luck. I had a white car, and the cop wrote down that it was green. Difference - I got ticketed at night. I was 17 or so and brought the color swaths and the whole nine yards into court. My contention was the cop was looking at another (green) car but pulled me over.

The judge was impressed with my presentation but since it was at night, he didn't go for it. I got the "deal" anyway - reduced fine, no points, etc.

If you were ticketed in normal daylight, you should be able to make the case that the cop clocked a different car but pulled you over. You just need to introduce enough doubt that he wasn't looking at you when measuring the speed.

Also, do an online search of NY administrative code and print out the requirements for speeding citations. If color's one of the requirements, then it must be filled out correctly. If not, all you have to say is the citation doesn't meet such-and-such section of the code, and they'll toss it.

I won't get into the ethical discussion of fighting speeding tickets in this country. We can do that when the people have a say in setting the speed limits. If the yardstick is whether or not we speed, 75% of Americans are criminals.

Good luck!
Tom

[afterburn 549]

bring you lawer and get it out of there

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

In response to the above:

"Be a man..." I am a man. But as far as I'm concerned, traffic enforcement isn't a matter of morality, it's a game: they try to get your money, you try to keep your money. All's fair.

"Get a V1.." I have two of them, one in the SC, plus a Passport. I've used radar detectors of various sorts since 1973, when I was at Car and Driver and got one of the original FuzzBusters, I believe it was called. None of them work against instant-on radar from an unmarked car in a situation where traffic ahead hasn't set it off in time of your detector to read spillover.

"Offered a plea deal..." If I'm offered a deal, I'll take it and forget all about car color. I was simply wondering what my options might be if the cop says, "I don't like you or your lousy Porsche, no deal..."

Stephan

[jbripps]

The color of the car is not a material piece of evidence. It can be amended anytime during or prior to trial. Yes, you can pick on his ability to recall, but you will never win, or get the case dismissed that way.

Let's face it, you will NEVER have a trial on this case, and the trooper will, if you are lucky and nice enough, reduce the speed to a 1201(a)-Parking on Pavement or 375(42)-Inoperable Speedometer, or if a non-moving violation is not gonna work, ask for an 1110(a)-Failure to Obey Traffic Control Device. While that ticket carries 2 points, it usually has no adverse effect with your insurance carrier.

Or, better yet, you can hire me to represent you, and you won't have to go to court at all! That's my free .02 cents of legal advice.

Good Luck!!

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson
In response to the above:

"Be a man..." I am a man. But as far as I'm concerned, traffic enforcement isn't a matter of morality, it's a game: they try to get your money, you try to keep your money. All's fair.

Stephan

It is a game and they do try to get your money. Totally agree and if they are using selective enforcement or ticketing drivers going 3 mph over the limit could understand. You were trying to avoid getting caught or you would not have a V1 in the car!

Going 80 on an road where its marked 55, getting caught, then admitting that you were speeding is kinda hard to defend morally. As long as we are talking about morals, I assume that you are going in front of the judge and tell him "I was driving 80 in a 55, but my car is not that color, so I am not guilty"?????

Could care less how fast everyone else was going, he stopped your car. Anyone who drives a 911 or Corvette knows that its a cop magnet but you knew that before you pushed on the loud pedal.

Face the music and move on...

Joe A

[Shuie]

If you show up with the ticket in hand how can you say that it wasnt really you that was speeding?

[k9handler]

just let it go and pay up.

[mjshira]

I agree, it is game. I have one of the only P-cars in this town. I have been pulled over 6 times since I moved here. None of these resulted in tickets that stuck. The last time I asked the cop if it had something to do with my car. Since I got an old pickup, which I drive faster, I never even get a look from them...

its all BS, I agree with Stephan, they do want our money.

whoever made the be a man comment, you really aught to read up on Stephan, his books and his contribution to this board are hallmarks of "being a man". Heck anyone that can survive a 911 resto has my respect.

[Craig 930 RS]

All 'be a man/suck it up' preaching aside, the lawyer who represented me specifically looks for stuff like this.....looks for a 'well-written or not ticket'....so I'd say you have a decent chance

[patkeefe]

Good idea...call Jon

[LakeCleElum]

Been in court a lot over a 30 year career. Seen this tried many times. Judge will say somehing like: You wish to ammend the citiation for the color to be RED - motion granted. NOW PROCEED with your defense....

[jbripps]

Stephan, by the way, you should know that NY DMV imposes a new state surcharge (I like to call it a B.S. Tax) on any drivers who have 6 or more points on their record. This started November last year, and no one really knows about it yet. Yes, this is a 6 points ticket. A strait guilty plea (which obviously would be silly) would result in a $150 per year for 3 years surcharge. Also, an additional $25 more for each point over 6.

It really is horrible, so make sure you stay below that. The 6 points must have accumulated over 18 months, and even if you take the point reduction class, you will still be hit with the surcharge.

Regards,

[mjshira]

great. another example of our wonderful gov't at work. I don't want to make this thread into OT but how much more can we all pay then we are and yet they keep coming up with ways for us to pay more!

[Kurt B]

Well some cop thought it was funny to write my name, Kurt Bingham as Kurt Bring Ham on a the ticket, and it didn't help me. He was just an assh@le, but it's cool. I ended up paying the fine and eating the points.