Upgrading AC on wife's SC...In too deep?
 

Here is what I have....

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1118521323.jpg

I am going to switch over to R134a and put on the rotary compressor. From research here I think I need a new bracket? Also where in the heck do the 3,000 O-rings go that came with the conversion kit go? The compressor came with some too. I assume those go on the high and low pressure lines that it hooks up to? Do I really need a new dryer? Anything else while I am at it?

definitely get new barrier hoses if you can swing it..you can buy them complete for around $350, but others here have had shops make them from bulk for around $150. switching refrigerants? then a new receiver/drier is a good idea..and i think i've heard of buys of around $30 for them if shop right. if you want a/c when sitting in traffic, consider adding an electric fan to your condenser. are you going with just the rear deck mounted variety or a fender mount..or both?
ryan

Shawn: If you're going with a true rotary compressor, you should contact Performance Aire (www.scottsind.com). They sell the Seiko-Seiki rotary, and they have a bracket for the 3.0. Another alternative is the Sanden, which is a wobble-plate piston compressor.

Vertex sells a kit with a Sanden compressor and a bracket for the 3.0. www.**********.com

Rennaire sells a hose kit for $369. www.rennaire.com. I think they also sell the Sanden with a bracket for the 3.0.

Consider a ProCooler. I think it helped bring my temps into the 30s. www.procooler.com

Rennaire and ProCooler are the same guy...Ron Maxwell. He's a good guy, and very knowledgeable about Porsche a/c. I'll bet if you buy the hoses, ProCooler and compressor kit from him, he'll cut you a deal. For $1129, he sells a complete kit with hoses, compressor, bracket, evaporator, expansion valve, ProCooler, etc. If you're serious about your a/c, you might consider it. No affilliation, just a happy (cool) customer.

Good luck!

I have the rotary compressor. (2nd from the left in above pic)

After thinking about it and looking into the work and $$ involved to switch to the rotary compressor I have decided to just use the York, convert over to R134a, replace all the O-rings and the dryer. With that plan in mind do I need anything else?

Another thing, does anyone have an exploded diagram for an SC pertaining to the O-ring locations in the AC system?

The o-rings would go on the hose ends (the male end, there's a space where they fit), but I believe an SC has flare (compression) hose fittings and doesn't use the o-rings. Could be wrong though, I have a Carrera. If you do encounter o-rings, you want to make sure that they're for R134a, usually green (Viton). Make sure you use the R134a oil for an R12 to 134 conversion. You can get the 134 with or without the oil, or you can buy a can of the 134 oil and inject it into the system just like refrigerant before you install the 134

Here is a picture of the R134a conversion kit I have. It has hundreds of O-rings and some seals. It came with the oil but doesn't really say how much I need. I know at the compressor they are flare fittings but i wonder about the rest of the connections?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1118534591.jpg

In my opinion you are wasting your time installing that boat anchor ( york ) compressor, you will not be happy with the performance especially if you convert to R134A. If it were me I would definately use the rotary compressor.Just my 2 cents.

I agree completely!

Trowm-Hammer

You don't only need a new compresor. But you also need to;

1. Flush the exsisting system with a flushing solution and compresed air., Take the evaporator appart and or take it to an Air/C Shop and instal a new expancion valve.
2.Buy a new Dryer and replaced the Old.
3.Replace al o-rings.
4.Replace all fotting and hoses
5. get 1 small electric fan for the deck lid condenser(If you have a spoiler)
6. Vacuun test for leack's
7.Put the new lubricant
8.Put the nessesary 134a
A word of advice: 134a runs with more pressure..!
and good luck

VicSmileWavy

Go with the rotary compressor, you'll be glad you did. It's significantly more efficient, quieter (no air compressor noises), and does not add weird vibrations to the rest of the engine. I believe it's several pounds lighter too.

In fact, even if you weren't switching refrigerants, the rotary compressor is a possitive change.:D

On my budget for this car I am retaining the york compressor and converting to R134a. Now with that in mind what do I need to do?
I just need to know where the O-rings are...Are there any? The Compressor has flare fittings. Does the rest of the system have flare fittings too? I will replace the dryer and put an electric fan on the condensor.

The 83 AC system is all flare fittings if it is stock. If you break loose any of these fittings I strongly recommend copper flare sealing washers,they are cheap insurance to seal up the used flare fitting. I will stress one more time it is my opinion you are wasting your time and money useing that York compressor and converting to R134A. Good luck.

i think sanden compressors price out around $175? someone correct me if i'm wrong (like i need to ask permission for that on THIS board..lol) ;)
ryan

The system is all stock. So if there aren't any O-rings all I have to do is change the connections at the compressor, change the dryer, and charge with R134a?
I know it would be a much better AC system if I did the upgrades but its an SC Targa for crying out loud....who dumps that kind of cash into one of those???;)

No you have to also flush the system to get the R12 mineral oil out and then replace with the proper amount of R134A compatible oil.You also should pull a vacumn on the system to boil out any moisture and check for leaks.

rfuerst911sc is correct. The oil for R134a is not compatible with the mineral oil that is in your system for R12. For an R12 to R134a converstion, you really need to fully flush your system to get all the mineral oil out. If you read on www.aircondition.com (a GREAT site), you will find these sort of quickie conversion kits are referred to as "death kids" because, without fully flushing the system, they hasten the demise of the compressor. On the one hand, if your Yorkie dies, who cares, but on the other, if it dies a lubrication-related death, it can seize and throw metal into the system.

The fundamental problem is that you and most people in your situation talk about converting to R134 because your system currently isn't working. Thus it either has some failed component or the Freon leaked out of it or both. Changing to R134 is not going to fix the failed component or plug the leak. In fact the leak will likely be worse because of the smaller R134 molecule size. All of this is made worse on the 911 because of the hose that was pre-leaked at the factory (see the technical article on this site), the length of hose running beneath the car, and the distributed nature of the system (two condensors on the cars that have a tail).

There is never an easy way out of this. If the system is basically intact and functioning (meaning it is cooling but warming up over time), most people would be better to find the leak and pay to get it recharged with R12. That way you are not required to flush the system either to get the old oil out or to clean it of metal from a seized compressor. The problem with flushing is that you can't flush "through" the expansion valve, so the fittings need to be unscrewed from the evaporator. Make no mistake about it, there is risk in doing this on a 20+ year old car; you may start off the day planning to flush the system and end with the fittings twisted clean off an a/c component. (Oh boy do I speak from experience on this one.)

There is no such thing as "cheap" or "quick" a/c repair. You can do the work yourself, but you still need to decide that you require a/c and you will take the time and pay the money to see the thing through to the end, not decide that you'll just use an R134a conversion kit. This is unlikely to get you functioning, much less cold, a/c.

Good luck.

Make a home made compressor mounting braket or go for a a/c store and buy one york to sanden or seiko adapter. I buy one the last week and cost me $25. Two years ago a welding shop made me one.

And regarding the compressor adapter bracket -- Be absolutely certain to buy one from a Porsche-related vendor who KNOWS that the bracket works on a 911. Sanden-style compressor adapters are sold on Ebay and a variety of other sources, and they may or may not correctly adapt the compressor to your car. Do not believe them if they say it is "universal." It is NOT true. Also, be aware that you'll need to change the hose fittings to use any newer-style compressor. Your Yorkie has two identically-sized flare fittings; any new compressor will have two different-sized o-ring fittings.

Hey he has to use the york, changing over would make the car lighter and he's not aloud to do that;)

Ummmm why not just make a titanium bracket,,oh I forgot, its only an SC nevermind :D

Shawn, I just did mine and posted a new thread. Warren claims the oil needs drained out of the York first. I did not do this, so time will tell if he is right or not.

My '79 SC had flare fittings thru out the system at hose connections. Furthermore, they are actually 45 degree standard SAE type fittings (not metric!) so if hoses later become an issue one could easily buy bulk AC hose and have fittings installed at a local hydraulic shop.

After 1 week in 90 degree temps mine is working great but others claim it is not the proper way to do it. Time will tell, read my post if you want a little more detail on what I did keeping in mind it may not be the correct way.

Timm and Hammer

You better do it or spent some money soon on mayor components.
The problem is yours .. The advice is free.

VicSmileWavy

Hmmm, some folks have to learn by experience, others by the advice of experts. The latter is much cheaper on the whole.:rolleyes:
http://www.4s.com/fourseasons/tech_tips/tech_tips_english/ab317.html
http://www.4s.com/fourseasons/tech_tips/tech_tips_english/ab324.html

Or just go to www.aircondition.com and type in "death kit."

Just to be clear, there's no value judgement here. Reading many posts, it's clear that there are cases where the quick and dirty method has worked and the a/c has been cold for years. But it doesn't get around the issue of the a/c's not working in the first place (if it were full of R12 and working perfectly, why would you retrofit?). You'll note in Tim's thread that he first did some leak detection and repair. Tim and Shawn, keep us informed of how well this works.

For now I am going to drain and change the compressor oil and change the dryer. I will call my local AC shop and check on a price to have them flush and vacuum the system. I can fill it with R134a at home.

I dont' see a clutch for the nippondenso compressor on the right. Do you have one?

Do you have a bracket to adapt the nippondenso compressor to the stock oem compressor plate?

Do you have the hose connection manifolds for the nippondenso?

If you intend to use the nippondenso, rather than the York, and you are on a tight budget, you could have you are on a real tight budget, after you locate the hose manifolds, you could have a new compressor to deck lid condenser hose made, cut and barb the low side (that's real low budget).

The nippondenso will need 6 ounces of the ester oil. Most ester oils are compatible with residual R12 mineral oil that is left in the system. I'd be suprised if between the under body hoses and the evaporator you have 2 ounces at best in there so don't fret it. We have converted over 900 (yes nine hundred) 911's and 930's from R12 to R134a and never had a compressor lock up, system clog or gum up.

Don't forget, as they posted a new drier.

If you get stuck, pm me and we'll help you out the best we can.

Do you have a clutch for that nippon?

Kuehl, do you think I am OK with what I did to my York set-up? Converted to 134 w/ new drier, system evac, added approximately 8 oz of ester oil and 3 cans of 134. (I assume w/ the ruptured low pressure hose at the jack point and the new drier, I removed some of the old mineral oil but obviously not all of it.)

It has seen about a week's worth of 80 mile roundtrips to work in 85-90 temps and is working great so far.

Others claimed what I did was wrong but it sounds like you have done basically what I did w/ good results?

This is why I decided to stick with the York. I didn't see any way without major fab work to get that rotary compressor to work. Remember this car is an SC Targa. Not worth a $1,000 AC upgrade. How much Ester oil will the York require?

Do I think you are OK with what you did?
Yes and No.

Yes, because it was the best thing you could do at the time based on what you knew and what you had to work with.

No, because I would have done it differently naturally.
I would have dropped in a different compressor, added a high low switch, change out all the lines, added other condensers and vents; something like this:
http://www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/ice/index.html

But that is me.

Bottom line:
A) if the system is cold enough for you then all is fine.
B) if you added oil then the compressor is taken care of.
C) for now, drive it and enjoy it while it works, if something goes astray down the road you can address it later, might cost you more but you can wait until then.

thrown_hammer,

oil in york ?
you can get away with a range of 6-8 ounces,
too little and you get lock up,
too much and the evaporator gets saturated and you will
lose heat transfer