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I vote "Go for it" and let us know how it goes. That way, those of us who have had the same thoughts can learn something from you!
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PART OF MY SOUL: '86 911, '76 912E, '06 Cayman S, '90 911 C4, '74 911, '78 911 Targa, '01 Boxster, '70 911T, '99 Boxster (#2), '72 911T, '88 911, '99 Boxster (#1), '84 911 Turbo Look, '73 911 Targa, '88 944
Old 06-27-2005, 04:28 AM
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Rdane,
We ran a friends 99 996 in one lap of america this year.

Here *I* am @ Summit Point, Shenandoah ckt (take a very good look at the front wheels).


Simple list of mods:

1) manual GT3 (us) seats. - WAY lighter than the 27-way power stock seats. I think we saved 20-30lbs/seat. Very comfy for 5000miles in one week.

2) No mufflers. >40lbs WAY behind the rear axle. Go to midas and get a pair of 90deg pipes stretched to fit the cat. Sounds AWESOME - but too droning INSIDE the car @ 3-4k w/o some sort of rear sound deadening.

3) Remove ALL interior behind the front seats. We saved OVER 200 lbs (verified by my intercomp scales).

4) 996TT brakes (requires new front hubs = $$$). Awesome stopping ability. Don't really *need*, but I wasn't the one spending the money.

5) Bilstein PSS9's, GT3 adj sways, GT3 adj lower front control arms.

6) Aerokit. 996s look silly w/o it

I can't remember the exact final weight. I'll try to remember to ask.

BTW, here is what happens of one of the exhaust elbows wasn't tightened down enough and it falls off (not my fault).



Overall it is a VERY easy car to drive wicked fast. I got one practice weekend in it early this year (NASA event, VIR full course, advanced group). It ran down damn near everyhting. I could keep up w/ a well driven (but stock) C6 (I chicken out too much in the uphill esses (its not my car) - but Im easily back on his tail @ oak tree) Doing 145+ over the "hump" in the back straight and trail braking into the roller coaster isn't something Id ever dream of doing in my 911.

BTW, we barely brought any tools. The car just runs (well, except for loosing the exhaust tip). We didn't even adjust tire pressure after the first event. Its a FANTASTIC daily driver. I want one

SMD
Old 06-27-2005, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by smdubovsky
We ran a friends 99 996 in one lap of america this year.
I want one
SMD
Very cool and thanks! I knew someone had to be doing it. Add me to that want list of "me too".
Old 06-27-2005, 06:52 AM
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I think The 996 GT3 is one of if not the Porsche best street/track machines.. the motor is s a DREAM!.. I am talking all rounder..

I think it's a GREAT Idea Dane..
I plan on doing the same thing ONE DAY! get a stock 996 do some mild thiongs and reduce the weight and have a true ClubSport...

-Eric
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:54 AM
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Well, the idea is a good one if the car is going to be used for club racing. This is certainly a strong baseline package for modifications especially lightening and weight diet. The costs of factory rebuilt engines at <10,000 is a plus.
Old 06-27-2005, 07:06 AM
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Dane,

While I’m tempted, I have some question.

Clearly there is a significant difference in the engine. We have
focused on the difference in the “Semi-dry” oiling of the street
engine compared to the true dry-sump of the GT-3 (street & RS).
For the past year I have been pestering everyone to invent a
similar dry sump for earlier 911s because I feel it is so superior.

The oil system for the race version M96/77 is exactly the same as
I posted above for the street GT-3 M96/96 with the exception
the race version doesn’t use VarioCam so the oiling isn’t
provided for that and is simplified for the tappets.
Everything else is the same.

Even on the race version, Porsche is very picky about oil level:

“Checking the oil level / Oil level indicator.

• The engine oil level must always be checked with the engine
running at idle speed at the normal operating temperature.

• At the correct oil level, maximum mark, there is approximately
7,5 litres in the tank.

• When the oil level is at 'maximum', the three red diodes of the
electronic oil level display located in the rear side window will be
illuminated.

• As the oil level starts to sink; for example, during a long
distance race, the uppermost diode will be extinguished when
approximately 0,3 litre of oil has been consumed. Following a
further 0,5 litre consumption, total 0,8 litre, the middle diode will
be extinguished. The lowest diode will be extinguished following
a total oil consumption of approximately 1,8 litres.

• To prevent unnecessary engine damage the correct oil level,
Maximum, must be maintained.”


There are other significant differences. The M96/96 has Titanium
rods. It has an aluminum cylinder case to hold the Nikasil
cylinders. There are some more subtle changes for the race
version.

Here are the specs from the Factory Owner’s Manual for
type M96/77:

“Engine Technical Data
From Engine Nr. 63 1 23 001
Engine Type M96/77
Construction Six cylinder Boxer
Cooling medium Water
Number of cylinders 6
Bore Diameter = 99,9mm
Stroke 76,4mm
Cubic Capacity (actual) 3598 cm³
Compression ratio 13,5:1
Maximum power 309 kW / 420 HP at 8200rpm
(with air restrictor 2xD = 30,8 mm)
Maximum torque 380 Nm at 7000rpm
Maximum engine revs 8500 rpm
Engine weight, dry. 195 kg
Restrictor/ ACO 00 2xD = 30,8mm / 1100Kg”

Clearly weight is a big issue. I wouldn’t be surprised that the
M96/96 is 250 Kg and the street 996 pushing 300 Kg.
Who knows the weight specs?



The big question:

Why are there engine failures in the street cars? What mods can
be done to prevent them? Once we have the answers there, I
wouldn’t hesitate to start into the progressive “improvement” of
a street 996 as Ralph and SMD describe.

Best,
Grady
Old 06-27-2005, 07:36 AM
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Nice bike, Dane: Short wheelbase, no rake on the fork, hard seat makes it look good but not too comfortable to ride.
Over the years, I've owned 3-5 diferent bikes and found that you need at least 1 Racing-, 1 Touring- and 1 mountain bike.
The one I most often use for cardio/vascular and muscle-toning is a Cannondale Alu Touring bike with a drop-handlebar, medium-long wheelbase, good rake on the fork, medium-hard seat, 1.25" tires at 90PSI.
Have been cycling for 40+ years and see a lot of people with good bikes that are not adjusted properly.
If the bike is not adjusted right, it's no fun.
So, with your baby receiving a new interior, no XXX-run this Saturday?
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Last edited by Gunter; 06-27-2005 at 08:16 AM..
Old 06-27-2005, 08:14 AM
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Pelican Parts Hey....

Quote:
Originally posted by rdane
Thanks. I know nothing about the 996 but was thinking it is time to find out the details. The car is sweet!

Hey that's me.....

After reading this thread I've seen this same topic brought up on a couple of other popular 996 forums... Good points on each side but in the end it still leads me to the same argument that I also see on the BMW forums: the debate over turning a 325is into an M3.... Personally I would just save the time and hardship and spring for the real deal. When it's all said and done you'll still have a 996 instead of a true GT3 that won't ever give you the return you can get when it's time to sell....

I'd just like to add on that Auto Trader 996 that it will take more than a wiring harness (over 2K) and a dash to put that thing back together. For starters a leather dash and a set of air bags will set you back close to 1K used (if you can find them for a fair price). #2 you'll have to replace the air-filtering box that includes the heater core, flappers etc. I would also suspect from the photos that you're going to need the upper console area replaced. One of the photos shows the steering column & ignition gone along with the gage cluster missing ($500 +) and a need for a windscreen.

I would estimate this vehicle needing almost 5-10K in parts alone.... Now lets just say you pulled it out for 5K (doubt it but lets just say). How much time will you have spent? Probably at least 100 man-hours at a minimum (Believe me I've pulled the dash out completely and it took about 6 hours getting a old one out and a new one in..... of course I took a little extra time cleaning stuff while I was there).... You have a car now with some baggage, 60+ miles, and it's still a 1999. I would caution you to skip this one and pick something up in the mid 30's..... Some of the 1999 are in that range now. But expect to pay a lot more for 2001 and up models.

Ironically I've just started on the DIY articles on the 996 on Friday, I'm starting with the basic items first and then may go on to tackle others as they warrant.

Good Luck all, feel free to ask some questions..... I've been told I know a thing or two....

-Eli
Old 06-27-2005, 08:36 AM
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Gunter & Dane,
Since we taking about fast bikes:

I built the frame myself using an assortment of Columbus areo tubes, all fillet brazed.
I designed it with a shallow head tube angle so that it will steer straight with little effort.
With all of the carbon fiber components it weighs about 17 lb.
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Old 06-27-2005, 09:05 AM
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I agree with Eli, there is no substitute for the real McCoy. We all
want Cup Cars and put them on the street for play days. We also
all wanted RSRs to put on the street in ’74.

Reality check.

How about a nice street 911 with A/C and heaters that work.
One with better handling manners than ’73. Buy a slightly used
996. Of course our nature is to tinker. Nothing is good enough
to be left alone.

What to do?

Lighter weight.
More power.
Better grip.

AND continue the Porsche tradition of being able to
accomplish this while maintaining good long term reliability.




Here is the oil Circulation for a 996. Very much a “wet sump”
with scavenge pumps for the cam boxes. This is a type M96/01.
IMAGE OilCirculation996a
"
"
(C) Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.

1 -Oil sump
2 -Oil suction snorkel
3 -Oil pump
4 -Overpressure valve
5 -Full-flow oil filter
6 -Intermediate shaft
7 -Oil-to-water heat exchanger
8 -Camshaft
9 -Crankshaft
10 -Oil return pump
11 -Chain tensioner
12 -Oil pressure sensor
13 -Valves
14 -Oil-Level sensor
15 -Hydraulic valve tappet
16 -Oil temperature sensor


Here is the diagram end view of a 996 engine (M96/01).
IMAGE EngineDiagEnd996_01A
"
"
© Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.




Here is the crankcase with integral cylinders and with the
separate Iron – Aluminum bearing case (arrows).
IMAGE EngineDiagCrankHold996_01A
"
"
© Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche A.G.

Excerpts for your critical review.



Who has run fast acting data logging on the oil pressure?

Best,
Grady
Old 06-27-2005, 10:28 AM
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Grady,

The GT3 engine is basically a detuned GT1 (1998 LeMans winner) engine or NA 911 Turbo config. which shares common parts (case, dry sump system, etc.) The 996 and 986 engines are clean sheet designs which lowers costs being more convergent and less modular than the older 993 air cooled engines. The reason (at least one of the many) why engines in the 996 and boxsters haved premature failures are due to the semi-dry sump feature not flowing oil (starvation) to one bank of cylinders under race tire induced g-forces which was addressed by a PMS remachining of one of the valve covers and installation of a motorsports kit (for track DE or race use). Also the main seals leak oil in the earlier model yearsand there seems to be head gasket failure problems when anti-freeze mixes with oil.

The price differences between engines reflect the extra work (of assembly) and competition quality parts in the more costly versions. The new cars are not as bulletproof as the older air cooled ones because the newer street cars don't have a racecar based directly on the street car to test the parts in the crucible of competition (as in the good old days-pre 1998). Now Porsche is like GM or Ford in Nascar (don't have a street version of the car they race but just a similarly bodied (skinned) pretender for sale to the general public.
Old 06-27-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tshih

The reason (at least one of the many) why engines in the 996 and boxsters haved premature failures are due to the semi-dry sump feature not flowing oil (starvation) to one bank of cylinders under race tire induced g-forces which was addressed by a PMS remachining of one of the valve covers and installation of a motorsports kit (for track DE or race use).
Diagrams, explanations why and how, links!

Best,
Grady
Old 06-27-2005, 11:40 AM
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So who doesn't like rdane and is giving all his posts one star? Bad use of the post rating system.

I thought I read recently that the 997 GT3 will use the new 3.8 engine as it's base, which is the semi-dry sump one we're talking about here. Has Porsche addressed these problems with the oiling system for the 997 engines?
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Old 06-27-2005, 11:52 AM
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Are you sure of that or is it speculation. I would be quite upset if the 997 GT3 has the inferior engine technology which separates the GT3 and Turbo versions from the lower lines. It's not just the dry sump system that makes the engine cheaper. I really doubt that Porsche would put their reputation on the line with the GT3 racing with an untested engine.
Old 06-27-2005, 12:05 PM
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Don't know how reliable this source is but here it is:

Quote:
From Autoweek:
Rumors say the new 911 GT3 will ditch the old model’s hard-revving 3.6-liter engine for the latest evolution of Porsche’s normally aspirated six-cylinder boxer engine. In the 911 Carrera S, the new four-valve-per-cylinder 3.8-liter engine generates 350 hp, but Porsche insiders claim power could jump to as much as 400 horses with the redline extended beyond 8000 rpm and other internal modifications such as lightweight pistons, more advanced VarioCam variable valve timing and a larger air intake...
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=100684
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Old 06-27-2005, 12:21 PM
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I followed a thread on the Porsche Owners Club site and read that there has been a significant number of catastrophic engine failures with the 1999 996.
Drums
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Old 06-27-2005, 06:50 PM
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996 Engine Failure - just found this thread searching on this exact topic. A friend has just trashed his engine straight
after a factory service in his 996 at about 110,000Km. So I have started a new thread looking for advice and comments:

996 ENGINE FAILURES? Yep. Trashed Engine last week - help!!!

After reading the various comments here, and trying to work out where we stand, I feel as customers we should not be paying the penalty for bad design and maintenance of 996 engines if this is in fact true.

Your comments on the new thread will be appreciated. And especially your expriences AND the outcome if you got any satisfaction from Porsche over it.

Drums - do you have a link to the Porsche Owners Site thread you mentioned?
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Old 07-13-2005, 05:54 AM
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Autoweek is hardly a solid source of reality. Just stupid speculations and rumors. Why would Porsche go with a new engine that is unproven in competition when it already has one tooled and developed over time like the normal GT3 engine. Porsche has always followed the philosophy of gradual improvements instead of radical changes. The fact that Porsche cares about their reputation is going to ensure that the new GT3 will have a good system to win more races. Their street cars like the 997 and 987 however are just that. The typical 997 driver will be boulevard cruisers and GT drivers instead of hardcore racers. They will rarely stress their cars with competition.That's just a personal observation and opinion for what its worth.
Old 07-13-2005, 07:07 AM
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rdane, funny that you posted this now. I have been thinking the exact same thing lately. A base 996 has 300hp, and barely weighs over 3000lbs. If as stated above you could drop 200lbs, even with a totally stock engine that is a pretty nice power to weight ratio.
As far as real GT3 vs 996 with mods: Aren't GT3s still commanding close to $100k? Will they ever come down? They are very special cars. With 996s in the mid $30k range, you can do a lot of stuff to it and still be at half the cost of a GT3. Don't get me wrong, I realize that it is still "just" a 996, but it would be a great car.
This engine failure thing is interesting though, that would certainly ruin the fun. . .
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Old 07-13-2005, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Grand-Am SGS 996. Essentially starts life as a bone-stock street 996 with the interior gutted.....and the 3.6L 320 hp "crate" motor from Porsche costs $7,500.
This is what really got my attention and makes even the motor issue "not a big problem". Looks to be a fun ride and I suspect 200# could easily come just from the interior with the addition of GT3 seats and loosing some of the interior frills, spare tire and other normal stuff we'd chuck to lighten our cars.

While no GT3 it also is no SC.

This scares me though....

Quote:
"U need a new engine sir". $62,000 new or $24,000 exchange airfreighted from Germany.
24K Or 18K US$

More good info here.
996 ENGINE FAILURES? Yep. Trashed Engine last week - help!!!

Last edited by rdane; 07-13-2005 at 08:25 AM..
Old 07-13-2005, 08:12 AM
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