Help save my Porsche!

[bobswei]

This post is directed to the legal minds out there. I have two 911's that I'm trying to save from a financial beating in a divorce case. First one, I bought with money from a 911 I owned before marriage, for $4000, did some rust repair and a little tarting up. Now my ex says it's worth $18,300. So I got it appraised at $7500 but still hate giving her half. Now for the other one. It's a race car I built before the marriage but during the marriage, I had two mechanicals. One spun bearing and one set of bent exhaust valves (do to my missed shift at Sears Point). Repairs where about $2200 and $800 respectively. Now for the problem. My ex claims I spent over $11000 in upgrades which increased the value of the car. My question is: What can I do to show that these were repairs "only" and did not increase the value? She saved a lot of the receipts and fabricated the rest (paypal transactions before I had a paypal account). Had a passenger seat, that I bought, listed three times. Reminds me of the Money = Evil post. My lawyer says to get all the recipts from the venders (Pelican, German Precision, Engine Builders, etc...). Seems this would just duplicate what she has. Are there any legal minds out there that no what judges listen to? I thought of another appraisal but don't think it would show internal engine mods that don't exist. Thanks for any suggestions.

Bob

[Jgordon]

seems like if she's entered the paperwork into the system, you could then take that paperwork and say "look, she's listed items repeatedly, this is attempted fraud (or something along those lines)", and try to discredit her story a little. That might give more credence to your point of view. Not legal advice, just words from someone who wouldn't want to get screwed in the same situation.

[randywebb]

What is your attorney telling you to do after you brought up the duplication issue?

You have some different issues here - fabricating reciepts is pretty out there...

Your attorney will want to get stmts from the repair shops involved...

[greglepore]

Wow, so it comes down to this?

As to the repair issue, you have receipts. Its pretty common knowledge that money spent on maintainence of something, or "upgrades" doesn't necessarily increase the value of the vehicle.

Get an "expert"-someone in the field w/ credentials that will look at things and give you an opinion for a reasonable price-there might be some volunteers here, or someone that would do it reasonably (Wayne??)

[Zeke]

AFIK, property owned before a marrige remains in that person's name. If joint money was put into the car, the value of the car changes in different ways. Simple appreciation or deprciation of the car would have occured anyway. That should not become community property. The improvement to the car might be community, but as you say, a lot of that was maintenance. At best, I would think she would be only entitled to 1/2 of the money put in the car since the marrige and only if that money still represents a value of some kind. The apprsaisal should reflect and list specific items. IOW, how did they arrive at the amount? Take those items installed out of the deal and treat them separtaely. This all assumes you didn't put her name on the title or insure her to drive the car (which, in itself, is no grant to ownership).

I'm not an attorney, don't know the law and the law defies logic in many instances. So, my thoughts are totally worthless. However, similar cases that have been settled are of significant importance here. Don't trust one attorney to know all the answers. A little legal research here could help immensely.

[randywebb]

I'll venture what I think is going on:
- She knows you've upgraded the car.
- She didn't like it that you did that at the time.
- She wants to hurt you, 'cuz you hurt her, etc. etc...

So, she is after 1/2 the increased value. A simple thing to do might be to get an appraisal. If it's lower than before the marital conjunction....

But a good attorney will spend more effort (i.e. your money) to make sure there is backup -- hence the receipts. This will let you keep the car and may make her back down.

[bobswei]

Thanks for the response. Let me try and address some of the concerns. First of all, my attorney doesn't voice his opinion too much and leaves all the leg work to me. I'd like to replace him but im almost 4 years into this case so might be too late. Which is why I'm asking here. I think he wants the receipts again to show that "this is what was spent". The only repair shops was a machine shop since I did all the work myself. I think Jgordon has a good point but I'm dealing with a slippery snake. I spent over $5000 proving a document was forged (to save my house) and she came up with another fake one. But I do have documents that show certain accounts didn't exist at the time.
Randywebb says:
I'll venture what I think is going on:
- "She knows you've upgraded the car". She knows I "repaired" the car. I can't afford upgrades.
- "She didn't like it that you did that at the time". Very true. I agreed to buy her a piano if I could do the repair.
- "She wants to hurt you, 'cuz you hurt her, etc. etc..." Not true. She was the one looking for a bigger wallet. Yes, she is after ½ which is over $5500 when only $3000 was spent on the two repairs. But I don't see how a repair increases a cars value.

I already haven't driven this car in over two years do to the financial debt from all this.

There is a funny side story to all this about when I sent my ex e-mails, as if I were a computer company owner interested in her. (this is when she was first looking for a wallet). You could almost see her salivating on the keyboard in her replies. Anyway, that's another BBS.
Thanks for your input, it's greatly appreciated.

[hifeverz]

bobswei:
I've experienced a worse situation in my own divorce. Involved were 3 Porsche 911's, Mercedes SL, Ferrari 308. Concerning value . . . we (ex and myself) went "heatedly"back and forth on the worth (of my toys) to NO agreement. My attorney was costing me $250 per hour and hers was around $240 per hour. After hours and hours and more hours of bickering, mud slinging and #%&@ . . .ing, I saw the light (as well as the attorney's bill), and decided to SELL it all and let the market determine the value. It hurt to sell it all (sob, sob . . .). . . though it did get me closer to that final decree.
Years after and some NEW toys, I now have 2 911's, a 930, a 993, Mercedes SL, Range Rover, Mercedes E300, and more.

Moral: "there is more where that came from . . . " and a new wife if so desired . . . ! . . . don't get too caught up with any material stuff . . . it's all replaceable.

Good Luck,
Hz

[vash]

you need to find a new attorney. In my opinion, any good attorney wouldnt let you go mucking about the system on your own, risking your assets.

drop kick your current fool. i drive by an attorney office everyday that specializes in helping the men side in divorces. find one of them, this particular office is in walnut creek, ca.

where did you find this lovely woman? overseas? can you find someone trustworthy and give the car to them?

[drums]

If it cost $5,000 to fix a phony paper problem with the house, give her the $5,500 and be done with this B.S. [Barbara Streisand]. The time and attorney fees will end up costing more.......
Drums

[randywebb]

An attorney might let you do some leg work to save $$, save her time, and involve you in the case.

IF you switch, a female atty is often good for men in divorces.

Do NOT do what vash suggests - it is an illegal conversion and is a tort in and of itself. In some places it is a crime too.

[BigKenSteele]

I don't get it. If you were able to prove that she faked a document, why haven't you (or your lawyer or the state) filed charges against her for tampering with evidence and/or filing false charges. I, like many here, am not an attorney, but I am constantly dismayed at the complete and total discrimination toward men in divorce/custody proceedings. According to our courts, women can not possibly cause a marriage to fail, and men are of no parental value. Total BS - find a new lawyer.

[svandamme]

chicks are evil.

[jhc]

BBC News:

Scorned wife sells Lotus for 50p

DJ Tim Shaw said he would leave his wife and children for Jodie Marsh
A Birmingham radio DJ discovered hell hath no fury like a woman scorned after his wife sold his £25,000 luxury sports car on the internet for 50p.
Tim Shaw's wife, Hayley, put the Lotus Espirit Turbo on eBay after her husband propositioned glamour model Jodie Marsh live on-air on his Kerrang! FM show.

Mrs Shaw, 27, said the flirtatious interview had been the "last straw" in their relationship.

The car sold within minutes of it being posted on the internet site.

When he said he would leave me and the kids for Jodie Marsh, that was it for me.

Hayley Shaw

Mr Shaw upset his wife when he announced over the air that he would leave her and their two young children for Ms Marsh.

The item description for the car on eBay read: "I need to get rid of this car immediately - ideally in the next two to three hours before my husband gets home to find it gone and all his belongings in the street."

Mrs Shaw, who admitted she had sold the car after a few drinks, said: "When he said he would leave me and the kids for Jodie Marsh, that was it for me.

"I am sick of him disrespecting me and this family for the sake of his art. I didn't care about the money, I just wanted to get him back."

Mercy dash

She added: "There is no hope for a reconciliation. There have been a few things but this was the last straw."

The controversial DJ was suspended from the Birmingham-based Kerrang station after he broke into programme director Andrew Jeffries house during a live prank in which he caused damage to the property.

On another occasion at the station he choked on a sausage while simulating a sex act and he has been investigated in the past for pretending he was doing a live mercy dash to rescue a suicidal listener while working at Birmingham's BRMB station.

Mr Shaw was unavailable for comment but a spokesperson said: "We are not going to make any comment on what happened as this is a personal issue and not work-related."

[dickster]

$$$$.

Bob,

Wow. Tell me, whilst I was reading I was thinking "what about all the money she spent on her stuff?" Do you get half? How about that freakin piano?

You know, what happens if throughout the marriage you split the $$$$ 50/50. You spend yours on cars, and she blows hers on clothes, hair/mup, booze (shes a drinker) and 80 cigs a day. At the end she has nothing to show but you have some worthwhile assets - does she still get half?

Personally I would take Hz's advice if you can't resolve this. Find someone to sell the cars to, and get them back later. An old friend of mine went bankrupt years ago and "sold" his prized possessions to "close friends and family" to get rid of them. He still has them to this day.

Good luck. Where's that pre-nup..........

[cstreit]

I'm no attorney, but I'm guessing that if you can prove she submitted false or fraudulent documents into court, it wouldn't help her. I don't know if they would penalize her since it's a civil case, but I suspect the judge would be a bit more lenient on you.

[Rick Lee]

Hey, I'm a complete stranger and would buy your cars up cheap and sell them back to you for the same price. No one could claim I was a friend or relative.

[vash]

opps. i was just joking. marriage is scary.

[bobswei]

I would love to have a new lawyer. I now the law office Vash mentiones and called them. $365 consultation fee. I'm so far in debt, it's hard to start over at this point in time. dickster, that "freakin' piano", she claims was bought with her bounus money (from a job she just started) yea right. I have a cop friend that knows the story and will write a letter for me about the piano deal. Someone suggested to sell the cars and divide the $$ because there's more out there. But, I had a good job and lost it in Ca. poor economy and now working a crappy temp job. I spent close to 4 years building the race car and have my heart and soul into it. I don't want to loose something that will be very difficult to replace if at all. I really just want to save myself from further finacial damage and show that this race car has not been improved in the repair process. I'm hopping the $7500 estimate I got on the street 911 will make her $18,300 guess look bad but this freakin' judge accused her of fraud (in court) on falsely filling out a leagle document but did nothing about it. (Judge Haite, Solano county). Maybe the wrong court? It's strange, I hear a lot of people just dumbfounded, say: "Why didn't Scott Peterson just get a divorce?". No one brings up the divorce laws especialy in Ca.
Thanks very much for the help and support.
Bob

[dickster]

Does she know about this site?