Does my 911 handle correctly?
 

I have an 82 SC Targa, bone stock. I have had the car 4 months, and I am just starting to explore its limits.

As I start to push it toward the edge of the envelop, its starts to understeer slightly. If really pushed, it oversteers, and this can happen...shall we say......quickly. There is some initial oversteer, then *snap* the tail comes around.

Also, the oversteer seems to be much more of a problem if you let off the throttle. If you come in slower, then push hard out of the apex (over even before) it sticks like glue.

Is this correct?

Go to an Autocross or two to explore the handling characteristics.

My car has a huge low speed push in the sweepers. And as you note, throttle steer is interesting.

Learn it, love it.

This is tongue in cheek, right?

I thought everybody knew that these cars handled EXACTLY this way. You hit the nail on the head.

Engine in the back cause HUGE off-throttle oversteer in these cars.

Slow in, fast out is this car's game.

do a search on "trailing throttle oversteer". You should get some threads.

TTO is a feature, not a bug. Once you understand it, you can use it to your advantage. When we did a skid pad exercise and learned how to drive a square without moving the steering wheel, there was a loud choir, the heavens opened, and a booming voice said, "go forth and throttle steer."

Ummmmmm....well no. Sorry. :( I am a noob, and thus the post.

you should do a track day, preferably one with instructors that understand 911s. You can really do amazing things with the car. In certain turns you can ease off (not snap off) the throttle and have the back end start to come around, then get back on the gas and the car will bite and squirt straight. So your hands stay quiet and your steering the car with your feet. It really is a revelation. You can also work tight turns that way, going in with a bit of trail braking, then letting the rear end swing around before getting hard back on the gas out the other side.

happy happy joy joy...

that's why they called these cars widowmakers back in the days

I think everyone can remember the first time they lifted in a turn. :D

As other people have said, the car is great fun once you understand and learn to use the TTO to your advantage. I was lucky enough to have a father who always owned a Porsche, so I learned about TTO at a very young age.

The best advice (and already given) is to hit a track and just explore the limits of the car. While on the track, try dirrerent throtle and brake inputs to see how the car reacts.

I've always driven the 911 with the same theory as my sportbike; more throttle will help you out of 99% of the scray situations.

Have fun with the car and enjoy it! Just make sure you experience how the car handles with varied throttle input BEFORE you hit the canyons hard!

Jay

yea... i had a friend in the car..


it started out with :D then went to this :confused: then http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/hide.gif my friends likehttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/drink.gif then I almost http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pain30.gif on my car seat


a long pause aiming backwords.... then somehttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/128.gifhttp://www.pelicanparts.com/support/.../gaapslaap.gif

followed by the need for a http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pub.gif

New rule! Fast in - extra fast out...

Full power, quick lift and then FULL power - yessir...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1121344798.jpg

You are exactly correct. That's the way 911's handle.
Rule of thumb until... = slow into the turn and fast out of it. Go to the track and play with it, mainly throtle steering. Fun, fun, fun.

Nick you gave me a much needed laugh today....man that's funny

That was funny as hell, Nick. :D :D

Gave me a good laugh...

I thought this was a tongue in cheek post as well! :) Nonetheless, you have now discovered the unique character of rear engined cars. Having owned a hot rear engined car in the past ('71 VW fastback w/ 1.9L Gene Berg motor and 5 speed) I have NEVER lifted in my 911, but the first time I did in the VW, WHOA, what Nick said.

http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/bow.gif

thank you...

When i first got the car, the rear sway-bar was disconnected... i didn't know... the dam thing would just plow around... not much fun to drive.

that drive was the "test drive" after the sway-bar was reconnected!

Huh rear sway disconnected...I was thinking of something like this. Never heard of anyone doing it. And I have driven my car 4000 miles.
Mine tends to plow quite a bit. I have to really try to get some oversteer. Although once you do ;) (as long as you are expecting it)

Does my 911 handle correctly?
 

Its like a friend told me once after I discovered the TTO effect. "The fastest way around a turn in a 911, is sideways" This was on a 66 SWB car. After that first time it was sideways as much as possible. Keep practicing, you'll get good at it. Like some of the folks said, do it safely; do it at the track.

Cheers,
Ricky

From my experience at the track, most instructors don't enjoy it when you experiment while they're in the passenger's seat. They are usually nervous as it is and try to keep you at a more controlled level. I problably won't be experimenting with oversteer until I go solo.

Depends on the situation. In my case it is at the POC driving school (held twice a year) and for one of the exercises (with instructor in the car) you are told to spin the car. A couple of times. This is done under very controlled conditions on a skid pad, not on course, but spin you do nonetheless.

imho people should do whatever they can to try and find a school/track where they can do/learn this stuff. I rarely spin on the track, but my last one was almost enjoyable because I knew what to expect, and did what I was supposed to. If I hadn't had the skidpad exercises, it would be a different story, and I would be a different (ie worse) driver.

This thread is awesome - I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about trying some of this stuff out. I've never been to the track before, but thinking about doing my first DE event later this summer. One question - is there any worry of seriously damaging the car doing some of the skid pad stuff? (i.e. rolling or crashing into barriers) Obviously I'm going to listen to everything I'm told, but I've never driven a car like that before, and I'd hate to trash my first 911!

Chris

Here in Florida, you're almost guaranteed at least one wet session during the weekend, with all the thunder storms and hurricanes. So our skid pads are usually on the track course. So far I've had a few slips (not total spins) I attribute my success to the 10yrs living in NJ and driving in the snow.

Chris that reminds me of a different thread I read "Don't take to the track, what you can't leave behind".

re: serious damage

you are less likely to roll when the surface has lower friction - ice is best, followed by snow, then wet pavement. this is b/c the tires break away at lower roll angles, and at lower side forces.

Chris,

Hamilton right out of Cincy...right??

You are not far from one of the best tracks for new DE students. Putnam Park about 35 mile wests of Indy. It's a 1.8 mile track with lots of grass run off. Only one guard rail to worry about...the rest totally open.
Central Indianna and Kentucky Region PCA will have a DE there on Oct 29/30 Sign up and ask for me as your instructor and we will have some fun testing the limits. Be glad to take you out in my 911 and show you what they are talkng about. Also you have a very active SCCA autocross group in Cincy. Check them out...autocross is very helpful learning limits of your car in a slow speed inviroment....then to the track...try both.
Do it on the track or autox course and not on the street. Rubber cones and grass are a lot more forgiving than a concrete curb or telephone pole.

John

John,

Sorry, you've got the wrong Hamilton - I'm in Hamilton Ontario (Canada), about 50 miles west of Toronto. While I appreciate your offer, Indy's about a 10 hour drive from here!

There's an PCA IDS and skid pad at Shannonville in August I'd like to sign up for - probably the best place to get started.

Chris

Chris
Well don't get on the track with me...need to change the glasses...it was ON not OH...
That would be a good place to start...boy are you lucky too...just east of Toronto is Mosport....there is a PCA Club race there later this month...check it out

John

Chris,

Go to Shannonville if you can. You will learn a lot about your car's performance there (and yours too). Don't worry about damage too much. Shannonville is inherently much safer than Mosport, so it is good for your purposes. There is lots of wide open space.

Go to Mosport later. It is a much nicer track. Just be careful of Corner 2. The trailing throttle oversteer people are talking about here is the reason why I have the engine I now do in my car, thanks to someone's misfortune in their track car.

Thanks Paul - that's exactly what I'm hoping to do, just a question of whether or not I've got time to get my car to pass a tech inspection before the Aug. 21/22 weekend. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it for 2 days now!

(sorry for hijacking the thread :D )