Help!!!! Tranny Busted?? 84 Carrera

[indigowhale]

Spent the last day putting the car back together and wanted to let somebody who can drive see how nice the car ran now.

He went to take off in first a bit hard and then BANG! Poped out of first and then even a gingerly start and it would not stay in. Had to limp home and back it up into the garage in reverse. It had popped out of gear once on me but no issues followed till today.

Ok, I know a rebuild may be lurking, but I am on a beer budget right now. Any chance I can get off easy? PO just had a short shift kit installed.

Many thanks.

[doozer]

motor mounts / trans mounts good?

checked adjust on shift linkage between back seats?

[john walker's workshop]

most likely blew the teeth off the pressed on syncro hub on 1st gear. the drain plug magnet may have the evidence. 1st can be repaired by removing engine and trans and removing the end cover, the gears under it, then the center housing, then the roller bearings are removed from the two shafts. 1st comes off after the bearing is out of the way. good idea to replace the shift sleeve and deal with 2nd while it's just sitting there. 2nd breaks the same way as 1st. the trans can stay bolted to the engine for this "quickie" repair. i do them for $900-$1000. whole trans is double that, and could go a bit higher depending on what you find.

[indigowhale]

Yes, I think the motor and tranny mounts are good--maybe. What puzzles me is that that it will not stay in even if gently starting out.

Nevertheless, I will check the coupling and the tranny and motor mounts. They are original and have around 160K.

John Walker, I may ask you for more detail cause I may need to go that route. I am on the other coast or I would be there Monday morning. Thanks for your post.

[djmcmath]

Indigo, that sounds almost identical to the failure that my 915 suffered. The confirmation, as JWW describes, is what looks like asymetrical gear teeth in the tranny fluid, when you drain it. The process is slightly more complex than John makes it sound, but there's a lot of data here on the topic. For starters, try:
Can't Shift Into First
Randy, when he started, couldn't identify a transmission. So he took detailed pictures and posted the whole rebuild in the above thread, in exquisite detail.

Replacing synchro hubs in your tranny is something you can do mostly on your own, if you're halfway capable with tools, have some time on your hands, and aren't easily intimidated. Alternately, there are a lot of shops that could do the worst of it -- drop the engine, separate the tranny, and take it to a shop for the rebuild, for example. That makes a good compromise, and a fun way to spend a couple of weekends.

Good luck,

Dan

[indigowhale]

Thanks Dan, I am sitting here biting my fingernails...pretty sure I can do the job with the information, I just had different plans for time and money.

One bit of important information that may point to the motor and tranny mounts--I hope:

When pulling out in first gear, I have notice the stick shift bobbing back and forth with the torque of the motor only in first gear, kind of a quick back and forth front to rear like one shakes a hand held flag. It would stay in gear but I thought this was odd. The more torque the more bobbing.

What do you all think? inidcative of anything? or is this normal. Do you all have that?

The trans has new synthetic in it and I hate to waste it looking for teeth.

[indigowhale]

Here are pictures of the shift tower. Questions 1. What am I looking for in terms of adjustment as far as the stick hitting something before it is fully engaged in first? 2. It has a short shift kit, does anyone recognize if it's the factory one?

First gear engaged. I noticed that in comparison to the other gears, 1st gear is barely notchy. I.e., the stick comes out of it with very little resistance. Car is off.


Here is the shift coupler. Is that space between the bushings wear? Could this be the cultprit?


Also took motor mounts out, they seem strong:

[wanabe911 owner]

Indigo, sorry to here this, Im sure that with everyones help you will resolve this. Does the car run better after the gasket change?

[indigowhale]

Yes, the car runs perfect. I could sit a wine glass on the engine, it runs that smooth with the injectors serviced and the new manifold gaskets. I wish this had not happened but I am still hopeful for a small repair in adjustment.

[john walker's workshop]

the shift handle should not hit the front housing stop, before getting all the way into gear. try 3rd, being that 1st doesn't work. the coupler looks good enough.

[Kurt B]

Mine popped out maybe once or twice within a month, maybe just once (at mcdonald's drive through as I remember). A month later, it did as you said, popped out and would not stay in 1st. Then wouldn't stay in 2nd. Resulted in a tranny rebuild.

There's a procedure for adjusting the linkage in bentley where you open up the little box in the center on the floor in the back seats. Follow that procedure; although it seems like a stretch that could be the problem. When I put in a short shifter, I just couldn't get it INTO 3rd without adjustment. It never popped out of a gear.

[indigowhale]

Well I did that last night. Went by the book and adjusted the shift linkage.

Took it out on our street, started to go and POP, out of first. Did it 2-3 times and I said that's enough. Reversed back in the garage.

I confirmed that I been struck by the 915 demon. At least 1st gear may be the only problem till I open it up.

Expect a thread with a bunch of pictures when I get started.

Question: The engine needs nothing, but seems like it is easier to pull it out to get to the transmission. Is this correct? or can I just as easy pull the transmission only? I am not looking forward to a bunch of dirt raining on me.

TIA.

[john walker's workshop]

the engine needs to come out to get the trans out, together, or one at a time. always disconnect the shift coupler from the trans if the engine comes out first to keep from breaking or bending the shift rod or end cover.

[rcecale]

I've only done it once, but from what I've heard, it's easier to drop the engine and transmission together as a unit.

Coming out, it may not make that much of a difference, but getting the transmission connected back to the engine with the engine still in the car may be the tricky part.

FWIW, I'd drop it all as one unit.

Randy

[indigowhale]

THANKS John and Randy!

If it weren't for your prior posts on threads, this would be a daunting task. The work to get the engine out starts this afternoon.

I will try to post as many pictures as possible.

[SpeedracerIndy]

Originally posted by rcecale
I've only done it once, but from what I've heard, it's easier to drop the engine and transmission together as a unit.

Coming out, it may not make that much of a difference, but getting the transmission connected back to the engine with the engine still in the car may be the tricky part.

FWIW, I'd drop it all as one unit.

Randy

Ditto to that!

[john walker's workshop]

have a friend or two stand by to help steady the unit as you lower and remove. remove the short clutch release lever before lowering or it will be hard to get to later. it has to come off to separate the trans from the engine.

[indigowhale]

The bolt and two nuts did not work for taking the drain plug off the 915. Had to borrow a friend's 17 mm Snap On and that almost didn't do it till I used a jack to hold it against the darn plug:

Then as John Walker said, the evidence was waiting there for me:

All 11 pieces, I hope they are all from first gear. I intend to drop the engine on Saturday:

[rob justice]

That sucks - just hope its not too busted inside.
Keep the photos coming along with progress.

[rcecale]

WOW! Serious deja vu!

Looks like you're well on your way. Be sure to post pics and keep us all updated. the fun is just around the corner!

Randy