Low Octane concerns in Italy

[P3C_Pilot]

I just moved to Sicily from SoCal and just received my 911 from shipping and imported it to the EU

Great driving so far. New problem, maybe. Are there any concerns I should have about the really low octane gas available here. Most places are only ~82 Octane. Some places on the autostrada offer a premium that's maybe 84-85 and more $$$$. I get gas at a discount (US/NATO discount) but it still hurts.

Is it okay to simply use an octane booster on every fill up? Not a chemist and not sure what the potential issues may be after prolonged use.

Thanks for your help!

Andy

[Rot 911]

We actually have a couple of posters on here that live in Italy, hopefully they will chime in although they tend to hang out more on the off topic board.

[Paulporsche]

Are you sure that's not just the MON method of Octane rating? Remember we use RON+MON/2. It's possible your 82 is about our 87 and the 84 or 85 like our 89 or 90. Something to check out. I thought usally, in Europe they use the RON, which i s about 10 points higher than the MON, but you never know. It's hard to believe they would only have gas that is equivalent to our 77 or 80.

[1972_911T]

Im from england and we use RON, not sure what that means though! Ive also been woundering as we have regular unleaded and some garages sell higher ocatne "super unleaded" that I know some subaru's require to run properly wasnt sure if I need to be using that. No one seems to advertise octane rating anymore since we got shut of leaded two and four star!

What ocatne rating should a 72t been running on?

[P3C_Pilot]

Paulporsche,

I didn't think I'd have to do higher math. I'm not very smart. Just a pilot. Help me out. So if 1972_911T is right, and it's RON--wait, what is RON MON etc?

Bottom line....again, is this bad? Good? Ahhhhhhggggg....

[Dottore]

We lived in Switzerland until last year, and regularly took long driving tours through Italy in our 1988 3.2 litre Carrera.

The Porsche Club in Zurich told us that for our car the low Octane fuel in Italy should not be problem for two or three tank runs - but that if we spent longer periods in Italy we should use an Octane booster. You can buy these little yellow plastic jars of the stuff at AGIP station for not very much $$.

Without the Octane booster the car will run a little rougher. You get a more metallic and less throaty sound when you stand on the gas.

We made it a point to always add the booster in Italy.

Not sure about the RON/ MON debate.

[Paulporsche]

RON (Research) and MON (Motor) Octane Numbers are 2 ways of measuring octane. The tests are slightly different. In North Am we use PON (Pump) which is the average of the 2. Usually Eurpoe uses RON, which is usually about 9 or 10 points higher than MON. I know from experience, Sicily tends to go its own way on many things, so maybe this. I would check the pump itself, or contact Agip, BP, or whoever produceds the gas.

[RickM]

Originally posted by Paulporsche
Are you sure that's not just the MON method of Octane rating? Remember we use RON+MON/2. It's possible your 82 is about our 87 and the 84 or 85 like our 89 or 90.

Paul, I think it's the other way around. Our octane number would be lower.

"In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the 'headline' octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON: but in the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the "roaD Octane Number" or DON, or (R+M)/2. Because of the 10 point difference noted above this means that the octane in the United States will be about 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "normal" gasoline in the US and Canada, would be 92 in Europe."

[SC Schrauber]

"The Research Octane Number (RON, or F1) simulates fuel performance under low severity engine operation. The Motor Octane Number (MON, or F2) simulates more severe operation that might be incurred at high speed or high load. In practice the octane of a gasoline is reported as the average of RON and MON or R+M/2."

http://www.refiningonline.com/EngelhardKB/crep/TCR4_29.htm


also:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part1/
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=8760


Enjoy the dolce vita in Sicily.

Frank

[Paulporsche]

Rick,

What I'm saying is our number would be lower than RON by about 4 or 5. We would be higher than MON by the same. Usually Europe uses RON, but I'm wondering if Sicily uses MON, in which case our number would be higher. I'm speculating that if his figures were RON,with our number being 5 lower than that, then the number seems ridiculously low, so it may indeed be MON.

My head is beginning to hurt.

[1972_911T]

From Shell uk website

Petrol is rated on a scale of 0 - 100, and given a research octane number (RON). Lead Replacement Petrol has a minimum octane of 97 RON, Unleaded of 95 RON, Super of 97 RON and in August 2001 Shell introduced Shell Optimax, which with an octane rating of 98 RON is the UK's highest octane petrol.


Ok mon/ron discussion aside when my engine gets warm every few seconds or so I get and odd combstion noise that sounds more metalic then the normal engine noise this seems to upset the running of my engine for a split second.

could this be Pinking? and could it be that my petrol is too low RON, and most importantly can this damage my engine?

[1972_911T]

P3C_Pilot Id try looking up a website from a major fuel supplier in Sicily and find out exactly what there rating is ie Ron Mon or whatever then you will be able to compare this better to whats recommended!

[gaijindabe]

Sicily? I thought they used donkey carts?

[Paulporsche]

I looked up Shell and they have an Italian Super Premium @ RON 99!

1972_911t,
Sounds like it could be. For starters, try retarding your timing about 2 degrees and see if it goes away. Could be your timing is off, or your points are out of spec, or maybe your distributor isn't advancing correctly.

[Mr Beau]

When I filled up in northern Italy, I found it hard to get premium gas (98 RON, or about 93 'pump' octane in the US). Getting regular (95 RON, 90 pump) was not a problem. Andy, are you sure you've read the numbers correctly? I find it hard to believe that they're selling 82 RON (which would be 77 pump). Maybe they use another rating system such as MON?

If it is actually 82 MON, that would equate to about 87 pump in the US or 92 RON (as used in the rest of Europe). Your '77 should be able to handle this.

[Milu]

As already posted above the octane meaurement system used in Europe is different.

You will not have any problems with the 98 octane available at most petrol stations.

In theory you should not have a problem with the basic 95 octane. In practice this is often found to be a lower octane than stated which is why the octane booster is sometimes needed.

Most Porsches seem happiest with Shell.

[Paulporsche]

Milu,
The problem is that Andy reported he has seen octane ratings of only 82 and 84 or 85. Apparently he has not seen any of the 95, 98 or 99 that have been mentioned. That is why I speculated that the MON figures were posted, rather than the usual European RON or our PON.

BTW, Andy, what did you find out? Andy?

[Milu]

I have never heard of MON numbers being used in Europe, but it is certainly possible even if very strange and very confusing for everyone. If it is a RON rating then I would be very surprised to see any modern cars with high compresssion running.

Sicily should have the same petrol as on the mainland, viz 95 and 98. The cars come from the same factories and the petrol from the same refineries as the rest of Italy.

Just go to a Shell station and fill up with V.Power (98 octane) and you will be fine.

[Dutchie]

Paul rating of 82,84 or 85 ??? i travelled a lot in europe but never seen those anywhere. 95 and 98 is available in most of Europe. For a 3.2 911 98 is best but 95 wil do nicely with an octane booster.

[Mr Beau]

It looks like he has a '77 911, so there should be no issues even with the lower grade gas, no? This is assuming that it's 95 RON / 90 pump.