Show me your harness bar and race harness set up!

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I'm making a mess out of what should be a simple project. I have the cheapo NEX track seats and a harness bar in my SC. Just got a new set of GFORCE 5 pt. harnesses too. I have some short and some long eye bolts. I've figured out how I'm gonna do the sub belt install, but don't know where the other eye bolts go. For the shoulder harnesses on each seat, do they both mount to one point? If not, where does the inner one mount? Please explain in detail and with photos. I need to get the parts from OG tonight and am feeling particularly dense today. Thanks.

911teo · 07-25-2005, 06:44 AM

I went with the Brey - Krause harness truss. Do you have a roll cage? If not make sure the harness bar has been properly tested for the loads.

There is a big difference between a harness guide bar (with the 2 brakets) and a harness truss.

This is the harness truss from BK.

This is the harness bar form the same guys

The G-Force harness manual should tell you about how to mount the shoulder belts.. But they mount to 2 separates point on the cage or truss...

If you open the link you'll see how they mount to the BK harness truss.
http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/instructions/R-1025.pdf

As per the lap belts you could actually use the stock seat belt points.
I ordered again from Brey-Krause the following items
Tunnel seat belt mount belt kit r-9001

Note that if you have a post 87 911 you need another extra piece (as the stock seatbelt mounts onto the rails)

and the outside mount kit r-9003

They are expensive little guys... but allow you to use the stock configuration without having to weld any hooks on the tunnel.

I hope this helps and does not confuse you even more.
I am sorry I do not have pics of my setup as the car is in the shop solving a little 3.6 issue...

But make sure the harness bar that you have is really able to take the load. Be careful... the difference between the bar and the truss is just a couple of hundred bucks...

Jim Richards · 07-25-2005, 06:47 AM

RL, the shoulder straps are attached to (looped around) the harness bar and the rectangular HW piece has the straps looped thru it a couple of times to secure it. I can show you when we go to Kurt's this week for the Shenandoah Circuit show-and-tell. You'll need those snap on belt ends for the sub belt and the lap belts. My eye bolts are all the same size (long, I think) since they all go through the floor pan and have big a$$ backing washers on them. I think your lap belts secure to captive nuts on the interior body, either side of the seats. This is just speculation on my part as I've never looked at the set-up on an SC. But if this is correct, I would imagine that those (qty=4) eye bolts can be a shorter length.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Thanks. I have my harness bar already installed. No problem there. Issue is with the harnesses. Where between the seats and the tunnel to mount them? To the seats? Since my bar has welded harness guides, can I just loop-mount the harnesses, or do I have to bolt them down at the rear seat belt mounting points?

edit: Just saw your post Jim. Thanks.

MuffinMan · 07-25-2005, 07:17 AM

I puchased threaded eye-bolts and used the factory mounting location where the stock seat belt receptacles bolt into the car. The eye-bolt allows you to keep the stock receptacles, and gives you a location to snap the lap belt "onto". My car is at the shop for an suspension setup, thus no pics...sorry.

MuffinMan · 07-25-2005, 07:22 AM

And for the shoulder belts, I replaced the stock mounting bolts for the rear lap belts with the eye-hook bolts, and snapped the belts onto them.

911teo · 07-25-2005, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MuffinMan
And for the shoulder belts, I replaced the stock mounting bolts for the rear lap belts with the eye-hook bolts, and snapped the belts onto them.

I would be careful with this set up. The angle between the shoulder belts and the mounting point should be MAX 20 degree.

I have the Schroth manual in front of me and it explicity says that it is dangerous to exceed that angle.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Is loop-mounting the straps through the harness bar welded guide slots ok for DE?

}{arlequin · }{arlequin's Garage

I was under the impression that the round harness bar is just a guide bar... to properly locate the angle of the harness towards your spine (to avoid excessive compression) but w/ this type of bar it should be mounted to the stock rear seatbelt anchor points. (That's what Charlie did.)

W/ the triangulated truss-type harness bar, I think the company built in enough strength into it that it can take more stress from the belts than the round "guide bar" (ie. it will not buckle)

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

BTW, my harness bar does not bolt right in. It has these pie-wedge-like plates on the ends that line up over the pillar and look a lot beefier than just a straight bar.

911teo · 07-25-2005, 07:45 AM

Yes... Check this link

http://www.sparcousa.com/harness_bars.asp

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I don't like harness bars. I did one event and then went to a roll bar.

According to various things I've read, mounting to the rear seat belt mounts is OK. While the angle isn't ideal, it isn't "forboden" like bolting to the floor behind the front seat. But again, I'd rather have a proper bar and then mount the harness directly to the crossbar.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

I will eventually go with a roll bar. But I don't want to totally tear my car apart for that install and there just wasn't enough time between track events to get it all done. Maybe a winter project, after EFI.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
Maybe a winter project, after EFI.

Engine before safety? Your mother disapproves...

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

It won't matter which order I do it in, as it will all be before a 2006 track event. We have winters over here, ya know.

edward993 · 07-25-2005, 09:24 AM

Hi Rick,

I run my shoulder harness over my BreyKrause harness bar and simply go to the rear seatbelt points where I have put in eyebolts to clip onto.

For the outside lapbelt I, again, use an eyebolt to clip onto there (which if yours is a dedicated car you can, of course, just bolt it in).

Now here's the cool part: for the inside lapbelt, I use the BreyKrause r-9003 "Outer" mounts, the stubby little ones that Matteo's pic above shows, and bolted that along WITH the regular seatbelt receiver. I needed to use the bolt that I removed from the outer mount (that I had replaced with the eyebolt) since it was a bit longer to accomodate the extra thickness and washers of the bk mounts. It's perfect! No interference with the OE receiver when using the stock seatbelt, and for the track I just flip the OE receiver toward the rear and out of the way, and the little bk mounts are there to clip onto. I hope this makes sense, but if not, let me know and I can take some pics later.

Edward

911teo · 07-25-2005, 09:26 AM

Rick
I have been trying to decide between a truss bar and a DAS weekender roll bar. My car is a daily driver... No weldong for a cage right now for me...

The DAS is a true bolt in product. It takes 2h to install... I am trying the truss this Summer... let's see how it goes.

On a different note... be careful with the shoulder belt mounting angle. I just bought an ISAAC and they want the belts' mounting loops to be parallel to the shoulders...

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
We have winters over here, ya know.

?

Par911 · 07-25-2005, 09:36 AM

RL, some food for thought.

http://www.gruppeb.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?t=2029

edward993 · 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Lee
Is loop-mounting the straps through the harness bar welded guide slots ok for DE?

Hmmmm, I don't think it is ok, but that's according to a conversation I had with Brey Krause years ago. Also several years ago, I had asked a few folks "in the biz" about this NONE recommended strapping a shoulder harness onto any bar, harness guide bar or roll bar, if not welded. I'd err on the side of safety and just snap into the rear belt area. The compromise, of course, is more belt stretch, but I'd hate to think of what would happen to one's body if the shoulder belts were looped to the harnessbar and it gave.

I'm no engineer, but I'm thinking (guessing) that given the seriously high g-loads of maybe two human torsos flying forward (in a collision) and secured by a single bar that is long, secure by only two places at the extreme ends, and the load of the belts at near center, I see their point. Which is why Brey Krause's Harness Truss is triangulated and braced throughout the length of the "bar," if you can even call it a "bar." Who knows about Sparco's bar ...maybe it's good enough, ...maybe. Barring the BK Truss piece, I wouldn't want to trust securing my body to a harness bar, but that's just me

Edward