OK, so you are getting fuel to the injectors when the fuel pump is running?

The fact that the car runs off the CSV means it is not an ignition issue. You said your system and cold control pressures were in spec, right?

Is there some issue preventing the sensor plate from lifting when you're cranking? Sticky sensor plate? Massive vacuum leak that's pulling air from downstream of the sensor plate and preventing it from lifting and thus metering fuel?

Or am I just not understanding something you've said?

ianc

I got the car running now. It was getting to much fuel and soaked (is it called that in English??).

I made a switch for the fuel pump instead of the relay so I could operate it from the engine bay. Then with the fuel pump off I cranked it (from the engine bay) and I got some life in it. Then when it started to fire I hit the fuel pump and the engine came to life.
Lots of smoke!!! I let it run for a while, turned it of, replaced fuel pump relay and now with the engine warm it started up the normal way.
Then I took it for a spin. It had high idle, 1500-2000 rpm, or maybe sticky idle for it can come down (to 900-1000) if I let it sit or use the clutch (in gear and foot on the breaks).

Ianc:
Pressures are in spec I think (see earlier in thread), I actually don't have the specs, but from other threads it seems ok.
The sensor plate seems to move freely. I could not detect anything when I moved the plate by hand (without fuel pressure).

Safe,

Excellent progress. If your idle continues to stay high, there are a few discussions that I can point you to for diagnosis of similar problems. Most problems involve vaccum leaks, but it is also possible that the distributor advance weights may be dirty and are not returning to the idle position. Good luck, and great to hear that you can now drive it.

**************
It was getting to much fuel and soaked (is it called that in English??).
*********

English slang for too much fuel is flooded, and wet plugs will get fouled.

Rex

I´m now letting the car cool down to see if it will start the normal way when cold.
And later this evening I´m going see "Batman Begins" as a little treat, I hope its good :)

I think the high idle is related to my start problem.

Your high idle may be due to vacuum leaks, the decel valve, the AAR, distributor sticking, or even a too lean mixture, or the idle speed screw turned up too high.

Sometimes when you put the clutch in and the idle speed goes down, that's because your mixtureis too rich. It may have been richened by someone to make up for a lean condition like a vacuum leak.

If you rotate your rotor by hand, does it spring back quickly by itself?

BTW I think you'll like Batman Begins. Great special effects.

I will test for vacuum leaks later. Which are the most likely places for a leak?

I don't think its to lean or to rich, not normally, that would have shown in the exhausts levels, wouldn't it? But something is probably making it lean or rich on an intermittent scale.

The rotor springs back. I´m not really familiar with the distributer.
You can rotate it a little and it springs back and you can pull it up a bit and it rotates and springs back but a little different.

I posted a new post asking for specifications on fuel pressures warm and cold. As the control pressure is responsible for the plunger back pressure when running.

I´m amazed but what you can learn from problems ;)

I´m really no mechanic, I have never worked on cars in the past so I´m learning a lot as time goes. The first time I did something other than brakes was this winter when I made my first engine drop to seal oil leaks and as it turned out replace cam chains.

Magnus, I can't remember, you did get the car going, correct? If you can get to run for a few minutes, turn it off and check your residual pressures. They should be at least 1.3 bar after 10 min and 1.1 bar after 30. You can also get the engine started usually by lifting the sensor plate. If your residual pressures are too low, you probable need a new fuel accumulator or fuel pump check valve, as I mentioned previously. As a general rule, if the engine starts, it is not the cold start valve. Search air or vacuum leaks. Many members use an open but unlit propane torch and hold it close to various areas of the enging. If the revs change, there is a leak (except if held near the intake). Common areas are the rubber intake runner connections from the airbox, the airbox itself, the decel valve, the CSV o-rings, the fuel inj o-rings, the popoff valve,the AAR, the AAV, and all vacuum hoses.

I got it going yes. Waiting for it to cool down again...

I checked residual pressure yesterday. I had 2 bar right after I turned of the fuel pump and 1 bar after 38 minutes. Didn't get any messuremets in between.
But I have never had any hot start problems only cold start.

You might also want to check your thermotime switch. It's on the chain/ tensioner cover on the driver's side. Disconnect the wires and put a ltest light on the 2 connectors. Try to start the engine and see how long the light goes and stays on. It should be a few seconds, and then go out. This switch controls how long the CSV injects.

Thats a good idea, I'll on that.
The car started cold in less than 1 second today.

BTW: Batman Begins, was really good! Way better than I expected. Only problem is that Katie is way to cute to be believable as a DA.

Safe..just to clear up the function of the Fuel pump relay and the safety switch. I think you are wrong or perhaps I'm not understanding exactly what you stated. It is my understanding that the fuel pump relay is energized when the safety switch completes the circuit to ground. When the air sensor plate is at rest the safety switch is open [no ground connection]. When you crank the engine the cold start valve squirts fuel and while the engine cranks it draws air. This raises the air sensor plate and closes the safety switch, completing the circuit and energizing the fuel pump relay. The relay then allows the fuel pump to operate. In the event of an accident the motor would stall and the air sensor plate would come to the rest position. The safety switch would open and break the ground connection and prevent the fuel pump from flooding the engine with fuel. If you are having problems with a new relay operating I would check the functioning of the safety switch and the harness that connects to it. If it all checks out then you have a huge air leak that is preventing the air sensor plate from lifting during startup and closing the switch.

Engine does not have to fire. Just cranking it over will raise the sensor plate enough to energize the relay.

ianc

yes, thats true. Sorry for a bit of mis info! Let me edit that so we keep it pure!

Nope, I am pretty sure its the other way around. Sensor plate at rest = closed circuit and ground to the relay.
The relay is normaly closed 30 to 87a.

I always get confused by saying a relay is open or closed.

I don't think the diagram that you posted on the previous page is correct Magnus. I think that the connections to 87 and 87a are shown backwards on it. I'm almost 100% certain that the circuit 30-87a is completed even if there is no control current energizing the relay (85-86). When the relay is energized (current through 85-86), then the circuit 30-87 is active instead.

If what I believe is correct, then the starter connection (cranking only) would be on 87a. That way, the fuel pump (30) would always get power when cranking. When the engine fires and the ignition switch moves to the run position, power comes from 87 instead. 87 would only be active if you have current through 85-86, and in order for that to happen, the safety switch must be grounded while the sensor plate is lifted by airflow.

Make sense?

ianc

Here's the diagram again:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1122678865.jpg

Well, when I say closed I meen that its connected.

30 and 87a is only connected when the relay is NOT energized.

30 and 87 is connected when relay IS energized.

So the fuel pump gets power from the starter trough 87 when you turn the key.
That raises the sensorplate breaking grund, 85, to relay.
The relay then goes back to its normal condition, connecting 30 to 87a.
Now the fuel pump gets power from the ignition switch.
That is why you can jump 30 to 87a and the pump run when the ignition is on.
If the engine stalls the sensor plate comes to rest, getting ground to relay and that pulls the relay to 30-87 turning off the pump.


Its seams backwards , i know :)
I had to hook upp the relay on an bench with a power supply and a multi-meter.
The Haynes manual also has some good electrical diagrams.

Alright, I'll buy that; it seems to make sense. I was forgetting that both 87 and 87a have power when cranking. If 87a didn't have power when cranking, as soon as the plate lifted, the fuel pump would cut out.

This arrangement depends on there being current through 85-86 to cut off the fuel pump in an accident though. I'd rather have a fail-safe situation where if 85-86 wasn't energized (eg. relay shaken loose in crash, sensor plate jarred so it doesn't come fully to rest, wire cut etc.) the pump wouldn't run.

Such a design would count on the relay being energized during running though, which would probably be less reliable overall. Choices...

ianc