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Location: London UK
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UK 3.6 conversion stage one (pics)

Following several of months of reading and thinking I have decided to go the 3.6 conversion route rather than rebuild my 130k smokey 3.2.

I found a 1995 993 engine/loom/ECU with 42k that had been removed from a 993 that was getting a twin turbo transplant - got to be betther than one out or a wreck. I bought the engine off the guy that had owned the car for 4 yrs and seemed very genuine so I just went for it.

We lifted the engine into the back of my golf GTI - that was a right effort and I drove it back to my house where a neighbour helped me get it out the car and into the garage on his van with a tail lift.



I have started to clean it up and check it all over to make it ready for a new life in my 3.2 - so far I'm going to do the following general service items:

new plugs (beru or bosh?)
new distributor caps & rotor arms
new lower rocker cover gaskets and bolts (top rockers look good)
new crank case oil filter
replace a damaged oil return tube
new fan & alt belts
+ anything else you guys suggest as good pre install options

The engine currently looks like this:


I'm currently looking at conversion kit versus DIY and the jury is still out - I will keep you posted.

I have a few questions for you experienced 3.6'ers - any help most welcome:

The car had a new clutch 4k before the engine was removed - can/shall I just use this with the new flywheel I get? - if yes should I replace any bearings around that area?

The engine has sat for 4 months on a crate - should I do anything to waken it up befre I put it in the car - oil/fuel in any special places? (is it ok to gently turn it over after being dry for this period?)

I want to modify the A/C bracket so it doesnt get in the way so much(dont want A/C) - does anyone have any tips on how to get the bottom pully off without special tools so I can work on the A/C bracket off the car?

What is the advantage of doing the single pulley conversion that is available?

Is there any other seals/gaskets I should change before I install the engine?

I think thats all for now - im sure I will have more once I get further down the line.

Thanks to all those from the board who have already helped me and those who will in the future - muchos appreciated.

oh yeah, heres a pic of the car its going in:
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'89 3.2/3.6 coupe
Old 08-10-2005, 02:17 AM
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I would highly reccomend Dr Timmins kit, Instant G


Quote:
The car had a new clutch 4k before the engine was removed - can/shall I just use this with the new flywheel I get? - if yes should I replace any bearings around that area?
Depends on the clutch you installed, I would want at least a Sachs Sport clutch, I wold replace the nose bearing and possibly the throwout bearing at this time(was theTOB new?)

Quote:
The engine has sat for 4 months on a crate - should I do anything to waken it up befre I put it in the car - oil/fuel in any special places? (is it ok to gently turn it over after being dry for this period?)
plan on changing the oil and filters again shortly after its rebirth.

Quote:
I want to modify the A/C bracket so it doesnt get in the way so much(dont want A/C) - does anyone have any tips on how to get the bottom pully off without special tools so I can work on the A/C bracket off the car?
The bracket unbolts, use a hacksaw it will look like the RS version after some dresssing.

Quote:
What is the advantage of doing the single pulley conversion that is available?
It's a little lighter, a lot cleaner looking and you don't need the belt minder any more.
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Bill Verburg
'76 Carrera 3.6RS(nee C3/hotrod), '95 993RS/CS(clone)
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:02 AM
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Hi Bill, I have read lots of your previous posts - thanks for checking in and answering my questions.

I belive it was a standard clutch that was fitted but I dont know about whether the other bearings were done at the time - do I really need a sachs power clutch or are thery just better?

Good tip on the short first oil and filter interval - it was a Mobil 1 engine so I should really keep that going eh?

I have unbolted the bracket but I cant seem to get it to slide past the bottom pulley - do I need to remove that too?

From what I have read I didnt think I needed the belt minder even if I was going to keep the 2 belts - is this not the case. I dont intend hooking the minder up to any dash lights - I will just keep an eye on the belts however does the ECU need the minder message for any reason?

Thanks again for the help, cheers David
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:31 AM
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Jevvy

Keep me up to date with your plans. I'm going to use the Dr Timmins kit. I won't be starting my conversion until later in the year. I've got a 993 motor and will be installing it in a 1970 911T, keeping the outside of the car stock. Bit of a sleeper.

Derek
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:46 AM
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Hi Derek, thanks for dropping by.

I will try to keep this post up to date with progress - I'm aiming to get things done over the next 2 months.

You sound like you have a bit more of a challenge on your hands with the 1970 911T - 3.6 but I suppose the rewards will be greater too - good luck mate.
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
do I really need a sachs power clutch or are thery just better?
Are they really better, yes. do you really need it probably not, but it would be a shame to need to redo this after a short time.

Quote:
it was a Mobil 1 engine so I should really keep that going eh?
I would, the first fill or maybe 2 use cheaper oil and change after a very short time. Then do the M1

Quote:
I have unbolted the bracket but I cant seem to get it to slide past the bottom pulley - do I need to remove that too?
Shouldn't need to.

heres a diagram


and a pic of mine w/o


and w/



The belt minder has nothing to do w/ the DME it just lets you know when the fan belt is broken, you can leave it off
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Old 08-10-2005, 05:58 AM
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Hi Bill
Thanks for clarification on some of your answers.

The AC bracket is a bit of a puzzle - I have just been out to check and the bracket slides onto the studs that bolt the rear beam to the engine and it has lugs that hook behind the main pulley - they over lap by about 2-4 mm each side so there is no way I can see to slide it off the studs without removing the pulley or studs first.

The diagram you posted above seems to show the bracket is attached with bolts going upwards - that is not how mine is mounted.

The part number of my bracket is - 964.126.126 (should a 993 engine have 964 serial number parst on it?)

I'm sorry I dont have my digi cam here or I would have taken a snap.

PS your engine looks well nice & I like the single belt thing - looks very clean and uncomplicated.
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
The part number of my bracket is - 964.126.126 (should a 993 engine have 964 serial number parst on it?)
Yes, the same brackets were used on 964 and 993

the original part as used on 964s was 964.126.026.00, I suppose they updated it at some point.

Originally I bought an RS part for my 964, 964.115.011.02 w/o the AC pedestal. I used that part on both the '93 964 and on the '97 993. When the pedestal is removed, it looks just like the RS part.
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:39 AM
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cool, so its the right bit its just I cant get it off to cut the top off it - wonder why mine wont come off and yours did?

How hard is it to get the bottom pulley off without the special tool it seems to need?
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:45 AM
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Hard, that nut is on there
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:48 AM
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hmmm, kinda dont want to open a can of worms for the sake of a bit of alloy - wonder if I can cut and dremel it in place with appropriate shielding for the motor.

Do the seals behind the pulley ever go = me looking for an excuse to take it off!
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Old 08-10-2005, 06:58 AM
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Welcome to the 3.6 Club

Hey Jevvy,
I just finished a '97, 993 V-ram install in my '86 Carrera. Did it all by myself in the driveway with the help of an Instant G kit and a couple of phone calls to S Timmons for minor clarification. I highly reccomend the Instant G kit. Cross-over parts and instructions are excellent.

This thing now runs incredibly strong. Huge power increase. Anyway, unless you have access to someone with correct, DETAILED advice on the wiring crossover, it's not something easily done. With proper diagrams, instructions and wiring harness crossover, it's not hard at all.

Yours is a G-50 car so I'm not sure what flywheel/clutch is required. I had to replace mine with a lightened flywheel specifically made to mate the 993 to the 915 trans in my car. If your flywheel and clutch must be replaced, be sure to replace the rear main seal while you're in there. I didn't and I've got a little oil showing at the engine/trans seam. This was a major oversight on my part. If the leak gets worse, I'll have to pull the engine again. AAARGGH!! It looked clean so I assumed it was OK.

My engine sat up for almost 2 yrs before I bought it and brought it back to life. I pulled the lower set of plugs and rolled the engine until it showed full oil pressure, reinstalled the plugs and she started immediately. Brought chills to my spine to hear that explosive, ripping snarl from the headers when it first fired up! No problems whatsoever from non-use. Well-- except minor rear main seal leak. Mea culpa.

Didn't mean to run on like this but I'm so pleased with the results of my swap, I tend to babble. Now I need bigger brakes and tires. By the way, get the single pulley conversion. It's much cleaner looking and if your fanbelt breaks, the alt light will come on to warn you before you flambe' that beautiful, expensive engine. You will have no warning with the stock 3.6 setup if no provisions are made to wire up a light to your belt tender.







Have Fun,

Mike
Old 08-10-2005, 08:23 AM
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Hi Mike

I was an avid reader of your conversion threads and you are one of the people I blame for tipping me over the edge and making me jump in with both feet and buy a 3.6 engine - consider yourself an inspiration!

I hear what you say about the timmins kit and from what I have read it seems to be the way to go but im in no hurry so I'm going to take my time and work out exactly what needs doing and if I need the kit or not(read here I probably will)

What did you do for the exhaust - I'm thinkin of the Timmins happy crab since it seems to be tried and tested and will mate up with the heat exchangers that are already in place.

Those look like new Bilstein Sports on the rear - I have just done the same but I put the standard ones on the front (think these are refered to HD's for you guys) I'm happy with the result and the car does handle better even before I lower and align it.

Can you give me any other tips or insight into what it feels like compared to the 3.2 you had

Thanks for cheking by and for adding a comment
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Old 08-10-2005, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jevvy
Can you give me any other tips or insight into what it feels like compared to the 3.2 you had
I just went from a 3.2 in my '88 to a 3.6. Granted, its not like going from a 2.7... but you will feel the difference. In many ways, its what the car 'should be'. It already handled great, now its got some giddyup.

What are you doing for cooling? Just the stock cooler? Note that the 3.6 does not have the additional engine cooler like your 3.2. I ended up going with additional front mounted cooler, but that required dropping the stock valence. i think you'd be fine for now, but maybe be on the lookout for an additional cooler for the other wheel well at some point in the future.

I may have missed it, but you need to modify the mounting bracket too (different bolts too?).

If you get your flywheel, wiring harness, et cetera from timmons... the additional 'tech advice' will be worth it. I was more than happy to buy some stuff from him in return for his answering my dumb email questions.

-Bernie
Old 08-10-2005, 10:16 AM
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Jevvy,
If you're going from a completely unmodified 3.2 to the 3.6, you will be quite impressed by the torque increase. My 3.2 had the MAF with chip upgrade and test pipe in place of the cat and homemade freeflow exhasut. There's no emissions testing where I live so I can get away with modifications that would bring down official ire elsewhere. My 3.2 ran great but the increase to 3.6 still amazes me. My car now accelerates in 5th as it did in 4th with the 3.2. I used to downshift to 4th to accelerate for fast passing on the highway, now I just give it more throttle and it gets up and goes. The first time I aggresively pulled out of a parking lot into fairly heavy traffic I hit second at about 4500, broke the tires loose and got sideways. She slid right into the lane I wanted but considerably tightened my sphincter in the process. It never did that with the 3.2! I will have to relearn how to drive this car. The Vram has enough power to bring the backend around in 2nd without high rev abuse. I definately need to get in some track time and relearn this beast.

I'll spend big bucks to do engine/trans mods but am a cheapskate when it comes to exhaust. I weld up glasspack mufflers (with sufficiently large ID) to a couple of 90deg pipe sections and add some rubber isolation hangers and call it good. Kinda loud but that's what I like; especially since it only cost me $125 American to to weld up my dual exhaust set up to the existing manifold stub outs. I don't like how my first attempt turned out. The pipe diameter and radius is wrong. I'm going to order some mandrel bent 90's and reweld with the proper radius. It still runs hard as is and sounds like a full on race Porsche when you put your foot in it. I'll set up a sound byte if I can figure out how to do it with this way overcomplitcated camera I own.

Of course, if they start smog checking around here I'm screwed and will have come up with something else. S Timmons says the original cat without mufflers works well sound, performance and emissions wise.





If I wasn't low on cash right now I would love to have the happy crab. It's gorgeous!

Mike
Old 08-10-2005, 11:37 AM
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I think you defo should change the clutch then if I do decide to buy your old engine from you I can have that

Not sure im keen on you describing it as smokey that never popped up in your e-mails today!

Steve
Old 08-10-2005, 01:02 PM
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Wheatdog, if you do remake the muffler set-up, perhaps a cross-over pipe between the two mufflers might be a good idea?
Old 08-10-2005, 03:54 PM
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