A-arm binding really an issue?
 

I just reinstalled my A-arms and read this binding issue on them.

See http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_SUSprf_pg17.htm#item16

Is this really such a big deal?

How do I best reinstall my A-arms after replacing my stock OEM rubber bushings with poly graphite ones?

Thanks,
Michiel

I have seen them seize and pull a bolt out of the pan . It doesn,t happen often but is more likely with aftermarket bushings when not greased regularly.I think if the A arm moves freely when being assembled it is probably OK.

Pelican sells a kit from Elephant Racing that makes alignment of the bushing housings simple. It can be done without the kit, but you may find that it becomes difficult if the car is tweaked. First, make sure the a-arms are straight, otherwise nothing will work. Binding bushings start to squeak.

Poly graphites work if and only if they are machined (or if you get lucky on the sizes) to fit the control arms. They do not perform like rubber, and if they don't fit correctly, they will hang up the suspension. If you have a good fit, and proper lubrication, they will be sufficient for daily use...many guys on this board have them and like them.

I can practically guarantee you that if you have ill-fitting poly graphites, you will have an experience when you will wish you didn't have them.

I pulled mine out within two weeks of putting them in, and installed some Elephant poly bronze units, which work very well. They cost a lot more, but are definitely worth it.

Amen.

I am convinced that, after redoing my A arms with Polybronce Elephant bearings, that the system is totally different than rubber, and needs to be changed accordingly.

To me, it's a once in 20 years job, and it's worth the extra $ to look at it from a systemic view.

Think seriously about the Poly Bronze solution.

I have put poly bronze in a few cars now and everyone thinks they are great. Myself included, but take that with a grain of salt! The beauty of them is they are very very easy to install. They are not just a replacement part, they are an upgrade. Some folks have had luck with the plastic type stuff, but it is pretty hard to beat polybronze.

Jeff

Well guys, the poly graphites are on the arms...

So it is not a matter of which bushings (bronze or graphite)...

Zeke: What kit are you talking about (the Low-Friction Control Arm Mounts)? How can I do this alignment without this kit?

patkeefe: They went on the arms without trimming and without hammering... just some bushing lube and a screwdriver to turn the mounting ring that slides over them on the arm. When turning this ring; both this mounting ring and the bushing turned... this wasn't even possible with the rubber bushings. I guess I got lucky on the size... What do you mean with "They don't perform like rubber"? In what I could see from sliding the bushings on they worked better as a true bushing than the rubber ones.

I can move the arms on the car without too much force... but they won't move without force. The shock in itself provides enough force to push it down (without the wheels on the car).

And I don't plan on modding the car... original as much as possible.

It is my believe that these poly-graphite bushings are better than the rubber ones... but have no theory on this.

I'm paranoid about them seizing and pulling a bolt out of the pan!!!

I appreciate everybody's feedback... please keep it comming.

With the OEM bushings, the rubber center is bonded to both the control arm and the outer ring. The rubber twists between them. With the graphite, the bushing should be tight in the outer ring but able to turn on the control arm, with lubricant between the control arm and bushing. With polybronze, the outer part is tight in the outer ring, and the inner part is tight on the control arm, and there is lubricant between the two polybronze parts.

The difference in all these setups is that the OEM bushings don't rotate on the control arm, and therefore don't require any lubricant, while the aftermarket do. The OEM bushing actually contributes a bit of it's own spring rate.

The graphite bushings need to be carefully fitted and lubricated so they don't seize on the control arm. If they're too tight they create stiction that the suspension movement, torsion bars, and shocks have to overcome. In use they can become tight enough to seize and pull the front mounting bolts out of the floor pan. Do a search on this topic with Souk's name and you'll find an article about properly fitting them.

The polybronze provide the best setup because they're precisely machined, include a provision for lubrication, and are precisely adjustable using the optional rear mount kit. They allow for free yet controlled motion of the control arm. When properly setup the control arm will drop from it's own weight without being loose.

I used a lathe to fit my bushings, but there are other means...

Here's a video.. http://motomotions.com/misc/suspension%20bushing%20fit.wmv

And here is the write up:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222777&highlight=souk+p olygraphite

That would be hard to explain. If you loosen the mount bolts just enough so the the housing can move and then the arm is freer to move, then something is keeping the housings from being exactly parallel. You might be able to knock things around until the arm moves free when the mounts are re-tightened. That's how folks did it until last year when the kits came out.

The mount system uses washers that are spherically mated to allow for an infinitely adjustable surface for the ears of the housings to rest on in alignment with each other.

There is a better explanation on the Elephant site.

I'm at the point where I will order a set of bronze ones and pull the PG ones without even using them.

Problem is that they are pretty loose on all but one side (the left rear)... loose enough to turn in the outer mounting ring AND the control arm. I don't believe in glue between the outer ring and the bushing, as this would wear out over time. The left rear is so tight around the control arm and less tight in the mounting ring that it turns almost exclusively in the mounting ring.

I could polish the a-arms a bit more (I didn't have my Dremel when I was doing this)... but didn't think it was that critical as the bushings freely pushed onto the arm by hand without too much force. Except for that last one :(

I'm convinced now of the polybronze and may order them soon...

How long does it take to install these?

Since everybody is raving about them and Chuck's marketing is pretty good I just ordered the PB's... they'll be here early next week.

That is a decision you will not regret.