stand alone efi

[mb911]

Mike not going to argue on thisd we played phone tag and simply never met up. No offense given to you as you have offered help when it was never diserved and I appreciate that.. I also have not been handed any back handed comments from you! How ever going to these kits. I feel it is important that the kits are plug and play not some much search out your own info and make of it what you will.. I have no experience with your kits and have never seen anything regarding it except from you and souk and that is why I say "unproven" Its much like me making wild hp claims out about my products that pelican sells and never having them tested

[bug man nrg]

To make a unit plug and play you will need to find the ECU plug end so you can build a jumper harness to fit .Is it the same harness from what year to what year do the plugs fit ?
Where do you get the plugs from?
if you have a older 911 with carbs you will need a engine harness to get started .
if you have this info can you send it to me and the pin outs

www.emereldperformance.com

[bug man nrg]

where would you get the motronic ecu plug to make a jumper harness for plug and play set up for 911/993/914 and so on

www.emeraldperformance.com

[Mike Bonkalski]

Any aftermarket engine management system that does not incorporate a Porsche "brain" will not be "plug and play". Its just the nature of the beast and that goes for Motec, Tec3, Haltech, Megasquirt, whatever... This thread is a good example - TEC3r software help

The end user will have to spend some time and effort (and possibly some $ at the dyno) to get to the state of tune that is necessary for the intended application of the motor. Baseline maps for fuel and spark can be provided for similar motors to get someone started in the process, but no matter how you cut it, it's always going to be the responsibility of the end user (engine builder, mechanic, or DIY'er) to get the motor running properly.

[mb911]

I agree 100% Mike But Allot of the kits could be improved by including basic instructions and cd drivers so there is an easy set up for the computer usage. Ask noah or some of the other guys running megasquirt ecus. It leaves allot to be desired. Once the software is learned it works better but think of getting a new computer you have to load the drivers for the printer/copier/fax/etc/etc. Without those drivers it makes it a lot more difficult especially if you have never done it before

[Mike Bonkalski]

I agree it is critical to make the setup as easy as possible and get on with the tuning process. All of the necessary software needs to be included and instructions need to be in place to indicate how the software is loaded. This is why we provide all of the latest stable releases of Megasquirt software and instructions on how to get this software up and running. I was trying to send you this info when we got our signals crossed. :-)

[bug man nrg]

has any one down load the manual from the site www.emeraldperformance.com all the info is in the manual .all the maps we send out are full running cars that have dyno tuning and are daily drivers and race cars.
plug and play set ups do not have to all use the porsche ecu as a piggy back .A STAND ALONE ecu will replace the stock ecu and give the control you need you can also down load the demo

[jpnovak]

bug man - Maybe you should quickly outline what the Emerald system offers in comparison to others. I assume you know the competitors to the 911 market.
How does this compare to Megasquirt, Haltec, SDS, Electromotive, etc?
Can it be adapted to existing CIS runners, Carrera manifold or does this require an ITB setup?
Sequential or batch fire injectors?
Integrated spark/ignition tuning?

How much to weld injector bungs to carb manifolds?
Cost of turn-key system including electronics, software, injectors, sensors, wiring, etc.?
you mention plug and play with a Porsche ECU. Most of our cars don't have an ECU.

Yes, I have read through your material and know the answers to the most of these questions. HOwever, we like to share information So how about helping out. Thanks

[bug man nrg]

You do not need to run itb BUT if you have carbs on your engine they then become your itb the mod you have to do is to the manifolds the injector bungs $10-$12 and they are made for me next door depending on the car .
the ECU unit is like the electromotive and the SDS BUT not quite the same this unit was made to work easy for the man on the street that would like to do his own thing at home in the garage or in a shop then go racing on the week end.
All the stand alone units today do the same thing from crank trigger from bosh 60-2
ford 36-1
Honda 21+1
and so on it all comes down to timing and fuel .To have control on air temp coolant temp map sensor boost control EGT feed back sequential or batch injector closed loop open loop coil on plug timing map switching on the fly and a lot more .the ecu you pick for your car is up to you .the ECU is only as good as the man tuning it all this info is on the site www.emeraldperformance.comthe cis runners can still be used with small mods to them

[bug man nrg]

We are told that there is a kit for cis to efi bolt in set up it is a spacer with the bungs in place is this right ?

[David]

Only the 84 and later 911's and 96 and later turbo's have electronic fuel injection so they would be the only one's that would be a candidate for a plug and play system. Since these systems work pretty well with just a chip change, I doubt many people would be looking for an ECU change.

I think there is a market for the earlier cars upgrading to EFI which is being filled by bitzracing with the Megasquirt system and Clewett with Electromotive. I don't know of anyone else selling a complete system. I'm currently putting EFI on my car and I'm having to piece together parts from all over.

As for asking a non-Pelican marketing question on this site. I don't have a problem with it because I think more competition is a good thing. I doubt Wayne would be to happy about it though.

[bug man nrg]

If i do not ask we will not know what you need to make a kit that will fit your pocket .the older cars they will need to do a loom for there EFI set up .
ECU & LOOM
MAP SENSOR
TPS
AIR TEMP SENSOR
COOLANT OR OIL TEMP SENSOR
ITB'S
MANIFOLD'S
AIR HORNS
FUEL RAIL'S
FITTING KIT
AIR FILTERS
we know the price off the other set up's out there WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO TO MAKE THIS WORK?
www.emeraldperformance.com

[rfuerst911sc]

Bug man nrg where in Florida are you located? I am in Orlando and would like to talk to you. I will speak for myself only, I am currently in the planning stages of figuring out what EFI system I want to install on my 83SC. The car has SSI heat exchangers and a free flowing 2 in 2 out stainless muffler via M+K. My CIS system currently works fine but I don't like the looks of the engine compartment nor do I understand the CIS system, these are all my problem not Porsches. I am a average shadetree mechanic but I really don't have that much computer experience so I like the SDS ECU because it does not require a laptop computer for setup,but I don't know if that hinders the tuning of the ECU system. Then there is the Tbitz system that uses the existing CIS intake runners and a Megasquirt ECU,he sells a complete kit for aprox. $1600.00 including everything you need to get up and running. Also there is the Motomotions kit, these guys are selling a ITB and Megasquirt complete kit for aprox. $3200.00. These prices are aprox. and do not include any ignition upgrades like crank trigger etc. From what I have read on this forum both kits are top quality and the support via phone and email are very good. So that's your competition in my opinion, ofcourse there are many other EFI systems out there at equal or higher prices but these are the ones I am considering.Your comments are appreciated. Thanks

[bug man nrg]

i am lauderhill florida .did you check the web site all you need to know on how efi work is all on the info page .this page tells you how all the senor work and what they do in the efi set up once you read this you all you need to know about efi

www.emeraldperformance.com

[bug man nrg]

call us on monday so we can figger out what you need

[bug man nrg]

we called around for the price on a late intake with tb from shops here in Florida and found a second hand OEM intake is mad money .Is there any thing cheap on this car?
we have one member sending us his carb intake to fit fuel rails and injector bungs and to do the mods on his carb for the tps
we will have him out the door for around $1850 with a ECU and all the parts and mods he need to get him on the road

[David]

I think a used Carrera intake and TB can still be found for a little over $500, but that price will probably keep going up as the conversions increase. From what I've heard from the racing community, the problem with making a non-OEM intake plenum is that the Porsche one is about as good as it gets. It may get to the point the ITB's are cheaper than used Carrera. Of course there's a ton of Carreras out there so there should always be a good supply.

That price is right down there with Tbitz's. Sound's like your on the right track. I think your biggest competition would be Tbitz and Clewett until someone else catches on that people would like to buy a complete EFI system and not have to piece together parts.

[beepbeep]

Hey bug man, just did some reading on your site. "Basics of Engine Managment" was nice. There are many people on this forum that ask questions that are answered on that page.

Now few questions about M3DK:

1. Site says you have 3 ignition coil drivers...so max 6 cylinders is allowed and wastefire is used, no?

2. Are injector drivers of "Peak & hold" type and can they be attached to low-impedance drivers w/o resistors?

3. Is there Anti-lag functionality built in?

4. Is it possible to run it in MAP/Alpha-N mixed mode?

5. Is there built-in pump circuitry for direct attachment of typical WBO2-sensors (like Bosch LSU) or is only NBO2 sensor attachable?

6. Is there any launch-control functionality built in? (Programmable rev limiter triggered with latched switch on clutch, for example).


Thanx!

[bug man nrg]

3 ignition drivers for wasted spark yes .if you need mor drivers we can do that to .
you can use low impedance with a resistor .each driver will control four high impedance injectors at one time
yes we do have anti lag built in
yes you can run it from a map
wide and narrow band + afr voltageconversion table
launch control(start line limiter) yes
rev limiter functions yes
we are making ajustments to the ecu for the US market ie egt feed back map switching on the fly .VTEC switching

[beepbeep]

Originally posted by bug man nrg

you can use low impedance with a resistor .each driver will control four high impedance injectors at one time

So peak & hold is not available? It's quite handy beacuse P&H driver circuirt is backwards compatible with hi-Z injectors. With other words, when you connect it to low-Z injector, it will trigger it with 4A then go down to 1A. When connected to hi-Z, it will trigger it with 1A and stay there, as always.

I built those with LM1949. It's quite easy and they are not expensive.

Originally posted by bug man nrg
yes you can run it from a map

Hmm...I don't think I understand your answer. My question was if it was possible to run Alpha-N in mixed mode. When I say Alpha-N I mean that you don't use MAP, just TPS and revs.

When using hot cams (usually on N/A engines), MAP signal gets noisy so you usually discard MAP signal and run on RPM and TPS only...up to certain point where MAP signal is clean enough. There, you do smooth interpolation from Alpha-N to MAP.

Originally posted by bug man nrg
wide and narrow band + afr voltageconversion table

So is it possible to plug wideband sensor directly into M3DK without any circuitry in-between? (WBO2 sensors require special pump circuit)



Thanx!