the best 2.0 race motor to build...

[speedo]

I realize I'm going to take heat for this...
I want to build a vintage car and use an aluminum 2.0 case as a start. Body weight will be easy to reduce...where I need help is the motor. My questions relate to....counterweight vs non counterweight crank...I plan to run webers and either GE or S cams.... what are you guys running that will get me 180-190 hp? I want some durability...anybody got a motor for me? Can I do this without twin-plugging? I have a friend that has a 67 S motor in his vintage car that humbles 3.2 club racers. Let me know...brag a bit...lie if necessary.

[Vintage911Racer]

Speedo.

I have been running a 2.0L race motor for 6 years now. The main question is "YOUR BUDGET". how much do you want to spend $10,000 or $30,000?

I have run motors with Counter balanced and Non Counter balanced cranks. If you plan on reving it past 7300 on a regular basis, I would go with the counterbalanced crank. However, the non counter balanced crank will rev quicker but the durability is questionable over 7300. At least that is what I have been told.

In my current racing motor (built by Frank Beck of Beck's Independant Porsche Shop in Phoeninx Arizona), I am running the counter balanced crank, GE 80 cams, JE Pistons 11.5:1 compression, PMO 46 MM carbs. I have some of (not all of) the inside goodies done to the case. Squirters, oil bypass mod, carrera pump. The motor revs to 8K at will. I generally shift it at about 7500 to 7700 RPMS. I too wanted a good combination of durability and HP... I think I found it. The motor puts out 196 HP at the flywheel and 165 hp at the rear wheels and 156 lb ft of torque. The motor holds it own against all the big 2.0L motors and the 2.5L motors that are running with us.

You certainly do not need twin plugging to achieve the HP... It will allow you to run higher compression and less advance in the timing. But honestly, the cost is not worth it unless you are building a monster 2.0L where cost is not an issue.

I am sure you are aware that a 2.0L motor is a TRUE momentum motor. It will really teach you how to carry speed into and out of the corners.


You should give Frank a call. www.becksporsche.com
1 602 997 6572

Here are some videos of me going against some 914-6 at one of our last events. The orange car is Frank Beck in his Super built 914 and 2.0L race motor. The other 914 is has a 2.5L race motor. As you can see, I can stay with them pretty well. There cars are lighter then mine and have more HP and Torque...


Video 1
Video 2
Video 3

Good luck with your motor. If you have any other questions or want to talk, shoot me an email. I can give you some more info if you need it. mark (at) vararacing (dot) com

[Brant]

Speedo,

whats your name?
have we met?

There are 2 big vintage builders in colorado that supply the top 2.0 cars. 3R and AJRS

I'd suggest that you figure out what year your car will be running in RMVR. I guess what I mean is that technically per rules, you will need a 65/66/67 to build an aluminum cased motor.

still I doubt it would really create much stink to put an aluminum block into a 68 or 69

RMVR isn't very forgiving in the updating/backdating department, so I don't think you can run a 70/71/72 chassis as a 2.0L

I'm running a VERY stock 2.0S motor in my 914/6 vintage car.
Its down on power, but still holds its own.
I'm very happy with it considering that the driver is not all I should be.

As per the norm make sure you read the rule book.
I don't think they will allow any 911 chassis to run a twin plug.
my buddy is running a twin plug 914/6 AJRS motor which is legal in a 914 because they ran them that way at lemans. I'm not so sure they ever ran a factory 2.0 twin plug 911 at lemans... but I admit I could certainly be wrong!

I'd still suggest you read the rule book carefully though.
for example the PMO's are not legal in RMVR because they were not available from the factory in any of the years allowed (65-72 911's)

whats your name?

are you ferguson's friend that I met over at his house?

brant (from longmont)

[obrut]

mark - what's a ballpark price for your motor?

[jluetjen]

Originally posted by Brant

As per the norm make sure you read the rule book.
I don't think they will allow any 911 chassis to run a twin plug.
my buddy is running a twin plug 914/6 AJRS motor which is legal in a 914 because they ran them that way at lemans. I'm not so sure they ever ran a factory 2.0 twin plug 911 at lemans... but I admit I could certainly be wrong!

Just to try to argueing the point, this this 1968 Twin-Plugged T/R raced at Le Mans in 1971 and the Targa Florio in 1970.

[Brant]

John,

good to know.. I honestly didn't know if they had or had not.
only problem with running a 68 chassis in rmvr is that they split the short wheel base and long wheel base cars. So the 68 2.0 would be running with 70-71 2.2's and it might be better (cheaper) to build more displacement.

Still good to know that there was a twin plug small 2.0 out there.

brant

[Vintage911Racer]

Brant,

Why would they make the 68 911 run with the long wheel base cars? The 68 was a short wheel base. 69 was the first year the long wheel base was available.

[jluetjen]

Speedo;
What's your driving background and experience? Is this your first race car or is this a "busman's holiday" from a regular drive in the SpeedGT series? Do you have a copy of the Porsche Competition Prep Guide for the 911 from early '70's? What year is your chassis? What sort of fuel are you going to be running?

[Brant]

Mark,

another mistake on my part then.
I honestly thought that the 68 was long.
memory must be getting fuzzy then.

but for RMVR purposes the split still holds true and here is why.
Their rules were 1967 and older, until just 2 years back and those cars were classified CP based on 1967 SCCA GCR

When they modified their rule they allowed 68-72, but they created a new class for all of those cars (CP2-CP3) so as to not upset the folks already in CP

so technically all of the 911's and 914-6 run in the same run group on track, but never-the-less they run in different classes of CP versus CP2 (and the 72-2.4's are CP3)

So If I was building a RMVR 911 from 68 through 71 I'd rather build a 70 or 71 with a 2.2 since I don't believe they will allow a 68 or 69 to upgrade that extra 200cc's of displacement.

brant

[ttweed]

Originally posted by Vintage911Racer
You certainly do not need twin plugging to achieve the HP... It will allow you to run lower compression and advance the timing a bit more.

Isn't this backwards, Mark? Twin plugging will allow you to run higher compression with less advance.

A good reference.

TT

[Vintage911Racer]

Tom,

Yes it is backwards. Thanks for catching that.

[SweetE]

Brant,

You forgot STORZ!!

[Brant]

Thats true..
Storz and GMC in colorado springs.
both have motors in running rmvr cars
didn't intend to leave anyone out.


(sweetE who are you)
I guess I'm going to have to learn all of the screen names from this list now.

brant

[Brant]

SweetE,

is that picture from Steamboat?
with Mike N. behind you?

nice pic

[SweetE]

Right you are!!

However , Mike wasn't there too long - his engine was a little stronger than mine.

[Brant]

speaking of hot motors.....
who built mike's motor?

[Jess]

Bob at Storz builds Mike N's motor(s) for him.

[klaucke]

Originally posted by ttweed
Isn't this backwards, Mark? Twin plugging will allow you to run higher compression with less advance.

A good reference.

TT

I agree about runing higher compression, but won't the twin plug also allow more advance? When detonation occurs you must retard timing; twin plugging helps prevent detonation, hence you can run more advance for more power (to generalize).

[speedo]

thanks for the response guys...I will (aside from the machine work) build the motor myself. My goal was to determine a "wish list" of parts before I begin. So...budget is really not that much of an issue...meaning that I will over time, find the parts I need while I focus on the building up the shell. My question was specifically...what is the best motor using the 2.0 crank and aluminum case I can create....and what do I need to find to create the motor. I got dusted by two 67S cars last weekend, that were both lighter and much faster than my track car. I can take care of the "lighter" problem....the motor is where I want some help.

[Brant]

speedo.
I'm sorry I can't really answer your question.
but can I ask again, who are you.

I was running the tangerine 914/6 at pueblo with the 2.0S motor.
which car/who are you out of curiosity?

brant