Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Midwestern Hades
Posts: 256
Send a message via AIM to jstein
Thumbs down Shifter in neutral, but 915 still in gear?

'79 SC w/915 tranny.

I recently got the car buttoned up after having a half-shaft fall off at speed at the GingerMan raceway - taking a bunch of the throttle linkage with it.

Drove it around town and the highway to try and 'burn out' any crud in the webers.

Last night went out to the garage to try and tune the carbs; start the car with the shifter in neutral and the clutch out.

After about 20 seconds of rough idle the car shakes - quite a bit.

Turn off the engine; look at Chris (who came over to offer some advice on the carb tuning).

Clutch IN - start it up again.

Idling; clutch out.

Jerk - STALL.

HUH?

The shifter is in the neutral position - verified.

Chris hops in, clutch down, start car. Shifter in reverse - fan clutch nice and slow.

No way - something is wrong; car bogs way down.

Turn off engine - scratch head.

Basically it seems that while the shifter is in neutral, the tranny is still in gear.

Any votes on what to check? The shifter moves fine. The clutch feels like it's engaging fine (and it must be since the car idles with the clutch in).

But the damn car still feels in gear.

__________________
-------------
1/5 '86 e30 "SHART" - 24hrs of Lemons veteran
'79 911 SC, webers, blah blah blah - The blue car (FOR SALE)
Old 09-27-2005, 04:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Bandwidth AbUser
 
Jim Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SoCal
Posts: 29,514
Shift coupler out of adjustment?
__________________
Jim R.
Old 09-27-2005, 04:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,486
check the shifter bushing
__________________
Derek Oxford PCA - Nationally Certified Instructor

2002 Boxster S ( race car)
2010 LR4 2009 GMC Sierra (Porsche Support
2011 M3 4Door
Old 09-27-2005, 04:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
durn for'ner
 
livi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of Sweden
Posts: 16,894
Stupid question perhaps, but why would that be the culprit when clutch engaged/disengaged makes the difference ??
__________________
Markus
Resident Fluffer

Carrera '85
Old 09-27-2005, 04:54 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Gon fix it with me hammer
 
svandamme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In Flanders Fields where the poppies blow
Posts: 20,448
Garage
if your clutch is in , your tranny is not engaged, so you can have it in whatever gear you want , it doesn't matter


if your shifter is not coupled correctly to the tranny
it can look like your shifter is in neutral , but the shifter rod that comes out of the tranny is in 4th or something






you can access the couple in the tunnel , there's a little access panel right in front of the rear seats

from my experience, i find it's easier to
disconnect the shifter from the coupler(9),
then make sure the coupler is positioned perfectly on the shift rod ( there's alittle hole in the rod, and one in the coupler , can't miss it the #2 bolt slots in both holes)
and then adjust the shifter linkage to the coupler...

__________________
Stijn Vandamme
EX911STARGA73EX92477EX94484EX944S88NOW987C2007

Last edited by svandamme; 09-27-2005 at 05:40 AM..
Old 09-27-2005, 05:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
KTL KTL is offline
Schleprock
 
KTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Frankfort IL USA
Posts: 16,379
If the shifter is in neutral and you get shuddering when the clutch is released, then you would have transmission issues and not clutch issues. Sounds to me like the clutch is working just fine. No shuddering when the pedal's in, pedal out and you have clutch engagement. That's how it's supposed to work. Problem is, the transmission isn't playing by the rules.......

When you're in neutral, there's still gears meshing and spinning with the clutch engaged. So if the shifter, shift fork(s) assembly of the trans. is not right, you have a gear being engaged.

I think the best place to start is to check the shifter arrangement and make sure nothing's come loose, allowing the trans. to be in gear when it shouldn't be. Otherwise, i'd tend to think it's something inside the trans. I'm no expert by any means. I've taken apart one 915 and haven't seen it run yet. Let's wait for John Walker to give his analysis?

If all else fails, I say park the SC and bring the C4 to Blackhawk for a few easy runs? We could tech. it tonight or Thurs, Fri.? Wed. is out for me though. Got a date.......... Just had to throw that in there.
__________________
Kevin L
Present: '86 Carrera, 89 Corvette Z51 6spd
Past: '87 Carrera, 79 911 SC widebody racecar
Old 09-27-2005, 05:43 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
durn for'ner
 
livi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of Sweden
Posts: 16,894
I knew that would prove to be a stupid question...

Thanks !
__________________
Markus
Resident Fluffer

Carrera '85
Old 09-27-2005, 05:45 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Midwestern Hades
Posts: 256
Send a message via AIM to jstein
Jim,

Thanks - an easy check, I'll do it tonight.

Stijn,

Thanks for the pictures and procedures. I'm an engineer - me like pictures

Kevin,

Amy actually offered me the C4 - but I don't feel comfortable bringing it on the track - I've yet to give it a thorough once-over, and I know for certain it has some lateral brake bias issues and something is amiss with the clutch.

Plus, there is NO way in hell I could "take a couple of easy laps" - just not gonna happen.

Oh, and a DATE? Like with a female? Nothing says "I'm a stud" than bringing her over to a house full of kids and wrenching on someone else's car! I'll even make her a Mai Tai!
__________________
-------------
1/5 '86 e30 "SHART" - 24hrs of Lemons veteran
'79 911 SC, webers, blah blah blah - The blue car (FOR SALE)
Old 09-27-2005, 06:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered
 
sammygon1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Posts: 374
If after you check the shift coupler adjustment and it still does not work check the actual shift tube where it connects to the clamp. Mine actually separated and I needed to tack weld it back in place. Look at this pic:
__________________
Sam Gonzales
'69 912 2.0 -6 power
Old 09-27-2005, 09:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
PCA & MCSCC Instructor
 
robfike's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Spencer, Indiana
Posts: 353
Garage
Now this happened in a 901 gearbox......but. I was coming off the track at Putnam Park. As I was going through the Armco, I was trying to go to first gear with a little difficulty. At the trailer I was shifting through the gears with the engine running, and clutch pedal down. With the shifter in neutral, let out the clutch, and the car starts to back up. Select a gear, start to let out the clutch, and the car would instantly bog down. I found that the first/reverse slider had moved to select reverse, but the pivot arm in the gearbox had somehow found it's way to the neutral position of the 2nd/3rd, and 4th/5th sliders. Quick fix to get things back into the right position with no damage. I think it was just a matter of the shifter being a little out of rig. Your problem at GingerMan may have created a similar shifter out of rig deal where you are in one gear all the time, but can select another.
Hope this helps, Rob
Old 09-27-2005, 11:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Midwestern Hades
Posts: 256
Send a message via AIM to jstein
Jay stopped by last night to root me on and offer some pointers. A quick verify in the tunnel ideed showed that the shift coupler is fine, and the tunnel was dry - so, jacked up the car and prepared to drain the tranny.

Of course, seeing as I have yet to drain the transmission, I didn't have the proper gigantic allen-head socket to fit in the plug, so Jay suggested I just remove the plate under the gear box and drain it that way.

Roger wilco.

Remove the four bolts from the studs and pried the cover off (gently) with a screwdriver. I drained the 4 tablespoons of fluid from the case and had a look inside.


Umm yeah.

Four tablespoons is, honestly, probably a bit of an exageration - it was probably more like 2.

Well - that's certainly not a good thing.

Anyway, at least I can see (kinda) what is going on in the trans - and it appears that "for some reason" (see above) the "operating pawl" which is SUPPOSED to rest within the shift guide(s) is hanging loose and flopping around.

So - at this point, I can't select any gears except (possibly) 5th or reverse.

The (kind of) good news is that the car is in neutral now.

I imagine the lack of fluid has probably done some bad things - my completely novice eye, however, believes things look pretty good in there. The dog-teeth I can see seem nicely pointed and there was no metal bits in the little bit of oil I did drain. Feeling around at the bottom of the case didn't produce anything either.

So - I suspect I should drop this thing and at least pull out the gears for a look-see. This will be my first engine drop, so I'm a bit nervous - just like a virgin for the very first time (come on, sing it - SING IT).
__________________
-------------
1/5 '86 e30 "SHART" - 24hrs of Lemons veteran
'79 911 SC, webers, blah blah blah - The blue car (FOR SALE)
Old 09-29-2005, 06:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Gon fix it with me hammer
 
svandamme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In Flanders Fields where the poppies blow
Posts: 20,448
Garage
there are some threads on this , some folks managed to fix this with te tranny in the car, i think it was John Walker
__________________
Stijn Vandamme
EX911STARGA73EX92477EX94484EX944S88NOW987C2007
Old 09-29-2005, 06:58 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sagacis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 158
I hope you have a way to get the fill plug off. Now that it is drained (probably already was anyway), you need to get the fill plug off to refill.

Also, make sure you have a good gasket surface for the access plate when you reinstall.

Search results:

Trytransmission stuck -- Help!

and

What's wrong wiith the pic? Need 915 trans help.

This one was really helpful for me because of the pix:
Can't Shift Into First
__________________
Mark Arvidson
1981 911SC Targa
Old 09-29-2005, 07:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Midwestern Hades
Posts: 256
Send a message via AIM to jstein
Well,


The engine drop went well and the trans came off nicely. I wrenched off the drain plug (after getting the 17mm) and found this:




Well, even I know enough to know that's no good.


After getting the intermediate housing off and checking out 2nd, it became obvious where these bits came from:



So it's clear that I'll be replacing some parts.

I do, however, have a specific question - when removing the two shafts from the differential, there is much mention of taking care of the shim(s) between the shaft mounts (my term) and the diff case. I found NO shims in place!

I imagine this isn't a good thing... What is it going to mean for me to reassemble? I'm going to have to re-align the connection to the diff somehow?

__________________
-------------
1/5 '86 e30 "SHART" - 24hrs of Lemons veteran
'79 911 SC, webers, blah blah blah - The blue car (FOR SALE)
Old 10-19-2005, 09:34 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:36 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2020 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.