Track insurance

[Jgordon]

Hello,

I signed up for my first track event which will be next saturday (Novice DE at pocono). I have a number of questions, but I guess an important one is track insurance.

I have allstate on the car now. I spoke to my agent, and described the event (untimed, sanctioned by PCA, defensive driving type event, NOT a race). He said that I was covered. Do you know whether that has held up before with claims? Anyone experience allstate in a claim situation from a DE? Do you recommend getting additional insurance? are there recommended providers?

Thanks.

[71T Targa]

I’ve not yet had the chance to do a DE. But my Allstate agent told me the same thing. He said I’d be covered and that it sounded like a great experience. Although there would be no discount for the ‘education’ I’d receive.

[Jgordon]

My agent is reading the drivers' education guide as we speak. He should be getting back to me with a definitive answer shortly. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a no though.

Any suggestions on track insurance carriers?

[juanbenae]

your agent does not decide if a claim is to be paid or not. i would suspect if there was an incident they would investigate it and the coverage would be in question. my point is that are you explaining EXACTLY what the event entails? you could bet any investigation an insurance company does post claim might paint the event different from how you are explaining it to your agent.

a quick note on allstate, any vehicle not listed in the blue book (20+ years i believe) is covered, but only so much you might say. they will "determine" a value if a total loss claim is filed. how is this "determined"? they "find" what the replacement cost would be for that vehicle in your area. very much a crap shoot when dealing with a claims adjuster. this means that the negotiations for the amount to be paid will start after your car is totaled. in dealing with insurance companies you need to be in a position of advantage to get paid. when i spoke with allstate about my 78 and value in the event of a loss they would not even accept an appraisal done prior to any claim to be filed with them. they did not want to know what it was worth pre-claim.

i guess what i am saying is that they like the obscure worth because they can determine its worth less by their system. they will pay you what the determine the car is worth, and if you don't settle time is on their side. i was not comfortable with this type of obscure coverage and opted for classic car insurance for the 911. more restrictions but a declared value prior to any claim.

i still use allstate for my commuter car, truck and home owners.

[coloradoporsche]

Even though I'm technically covered in a non-timed event, somehow I'm guessing when the insurance company sees the full roll cage in my car I'm going to have a tough time getting a check

[AvonGil]

I just did an DE at pocono speedway. You will have a blast! Carefull with the braking zone at the end of the south course, it comes fast!

[930LDR]

Originally posted by coloradoporsche
Even though I'm technically covered in a non-timed event, somehow I'm guessing when the insurance company sees the full roll cage in my car I'm going to have a tough time getting a check

I had an unfortunate incident at Road America early this spring where I managed to back the car into a tire wall. I carry track insurance through American Collectors Insurance but thought I would try my normal insurance first. SafeCo did agree to cover the incident and forked over a check for approximately $13k to have the car repaired (damn $4800 quarter panel), however I just got the notice informing me that they would not be renewing my insurance in November.

Now I am on the hunt for a new carrier.

Regarding the rollbar, while I would never suggest doing this, I do know of people who have removed their rollbar, recaros, harnesses and fikses prior to their adjuster inspection in an effort to remove any doubt about what type of event it was.

[Jgordon]

well, I expect my insurance agent to try to screw me. Not the most genial guy. I tried Laurel DE and spoke to David Empringham on Bailey's advice from another thread (search will find it).

He seems like a great guy - quoted me the follosing:

$25k agreed value

$510 for 10 DE days within a 365 day period

$5k deductible (told me they are insuring the catastrophic loss)

also told me that they are raising their rates on Oct. 1, so to try to get this in tomorrow if I want to save some money. $500 is not pocket change, but considering the alternative, I'll probably go with it anyway. Does anyone have a better company?

[rattlsnak]

do what everybody else does.

tow/drive it home, and tell them you ran off the road and hit a guardrail a few miles away.

[88 Club Sport]

Many schools of thought on this topic but here's my 02 cents:

The way I see it, the rates they charge my wife to drive the Volvo to and from the kids schools should not be the same rates that I get when I drive 10/10ths at the track.

I choose not to buy track insurance and go to the track in a car I am willing to walk away from if I screw up. I do not see why I should expect other insurance buying citizens to pay for my pleasure.

If you cannot afford to cover the loss, track insurance seems a good way to go. As for the tow/drive it home answer, that's not my style.

Just my 02 cents.

[Joe Bob]

Have him put it in writing.

[88 Club Sport]

I agree 100% w/Mike. If you get it in writing, let us know

[Por_sha911]

I have an "Agreed Value" policy with Allstate. I had to prove up front why I declared the car at this value. Technically this does not guarantee that amount of money if there is a claim but it makes it a lot harder for them to be arbitrary because if we can't agree on the value and we go to binding arbitration, the arbitrator will look at the fact that they agreed to the value stated. This means they are more likely to try to settle with me because they know that the arbitration will weigh heavier on my side.

[Stophos]

Here the facts from experience. If your policy says that they do not cover timed events and you drive PCA DE you are covered because it is not a timed event. You can have a cage, harness', fire supression, kill switch, giant wing, etc, etc and any form of rubber on the car including a nice set of race tire such as Hoosiers as long as they are DOT approved. If you drive Autox and hurt your car you are not covered because it is a timed event.
They will be slow to pay and look for loop holes but they will have to pay. The real key is to tell them exactly where it happened, and give them the DE mission statement. Do not BS them because they have gotten very good at proving that it wasn't a deer that jumped out in front of you. They will string you for years if they smell BS.

[Joe Bob]

Originally posted by Stophos
Here the facts from experience. If your policy says that they do not cover timed events and you drive PCA DE you are covered because it is not a timed event. You can have a cage, harness', fire supression, kill switch, giant wing, etc, etc and any form of rubber on the car including a nice set of race tire such as Hoosiers as long as they are DOT approved. If you drive Autox and hurt your car you are not covered because it is a timed event.
They will be slow to pay and look for loop holes but they will have to pay. The real key is to tell them exactly where it happened, and give them the DE mission statement. Do not BS them because they have gotten very good at proving that it wasn't a deer that jumped out in front of you. They will string you for years if they smell BS.

Sorry.....insurance company coverages vary from state to state. So ones experience with X in New Hamshire will not be the same in Texas or New York.

They will weasel out of coverage at the very least and in the event of an incident and WILL cancel yer a$$ when you do present a claim.

Best to tell them up front, present pics and get them to sign off ahead of time.....they'll still cancel you but you will be covered. OR you can simply get track insurance.

It's a crap shoot expecting street insurance to cover ANY event....there is a REASON insurance companies are rich.

[nostatic]

it's been 1.5 months since my subie was stolen/recovered and I'm *still* waiting for the damn thing to be finished. And the insurance already cut me a check, but there is stuff the adjuster missed. Was told on the phone that they would supplement but I'll believe it when I see it.

As for the track...I stuff it, I call AAA and fix it on my dime. And what is the point of doing a non-timed event?

[ddavidv]

I so enjoy reading these threads. Click on my profile to find out why.

Word to the wise...many insurance companies have become wise to our little DE's, and have revised their policies to expressley exclude such things from coverage. You had best check your most recent policy for the exact language and exclusions.

Lying to the insurance company about where/how your loss happened is never a good idea. They love to prosecute fraud cases fully, and make examples out of people.

My experience is, aside from maybe the blatant use of a roll bar and huge numbers on the side of your car, most adjusters won't know/won't care about Hoosiers, harnesses, kill switches and racing seats. I'm probably the exception; when I see a BMWCCA or PCA sticker in a window, I usually tend to be a little more helpful.

[Stophos]

Read your policy as it pertains to the state you are in. If it says that you are not covered for timed event for particular types of upgrades but does not have any other exclusions for being at or on a track, as some of them have added, you will be covered for DE and should not be covered for autoX. If given any opportunity to deny your claim they will. If you piss them off with big numbers, roll cage etc. they will look harder not to pay you but if your policy doesn't exclude these items they will eventually have to pay.
BTW...You can assume that your insurance company will drop you at the end of your current policy. If they don't your next premium will go through the roof.

[Rick Lee]

Take it from someone who had a $26k track wreck a week after I bought DE insur. for $950 - IT'S WORTH IT!!!!!

I have Laurel DE and Dave Empringham is a good guy. They were very easy to deal with and very fair. In fact, I will call him this morning to renew before Oct. 1, since I have some more DE's coming up soon.

I had a deer collision in July and was chatting about it with the USAA adjuster. Though my hit was on a public road and far from any track, my SC screams out track car (track seats, harnesses, fire ext, track decals, etc.). The adjuster said they pay extra close attention to such wrecks and especially if occurs anywhere near a track. Lots of folks claim they hit a deer or a telephone pole right around Summit Point Raceway. Lucky for me, there was still plenty of Bambi fur stuck in my smashed H4 assembly and some blood splatter on my windshield for the guy to see I was telling the truth - and I had about 20 witnesses.

[vash]

can you get track insurance for ONE event? (single date)