I haven't weighed in on this board yet, as my 911 purchase is still pending, but here goes. First off, your experience sucked and you were duped and unfairly treated. I'm an officer in the NG and am currently deployed in Iraq, and am embarrassed that a fellow officer would pull this kind of stunt. But, c'est la guerre, I guess honor has eluded this officer. I have been lurking on this board for the whole of my deployment, reading and learning, and have purchased the obligatory three 911 books from our host as a result. I too have been contemplating a distance purchase and am troubled by some of the experiences related herein. My difficulties have centered primarily around purchase by proxy, using a friend as a go-between for PPI and potential exchange of funds. I'm now resolved to completing the purchase at some point after I return in November, based upon this thread. I need to be present to throttle the SOB who may possibly intend to disabuse me in this manner.

As to the thread Joe provided: me thinks that if this officer treated the KBR employees in the same manner as you, with your purchase, it's apparent why he had such difficulty exacting anything more than to the letter of the contract service.

Best of luck with your anticipated purchase. Buy soon, cuz the playing field will be smaller next month as I rejoin the "hunt".

From Rob Macdonald:

"I need to be present to throttle the SOB who may possibly intend to disabuse me in this manner."

You know, there are automotive services now that will loan you money, do the PPI, offer extended warranties, and transport the vehicle to you. What we don't have, however, is a service that does the negotiating and follow-up when things go wrong.

Sounds like Rob may be a good choice...

A lot of similar stories here. But what else would you expect? We are talking about used cars here. I've had my share of very bad deals too. When buying a car that's some distance from me, after gauging the honesty of the seller from our communication, I do two things:

I have a PPI done at a reputable independent Porsche service center. That doesn't always work apparently as Sonic db can attest.

My next step is to enlist the aid of my fellow message board members. I've had people from the 2002faq look at BMWs for me in other states, and I have done the same for them. I'm sure Pelicans would be just as willing to help. I know I love shopping vicariously! This is actually done before the PPI because why spend money checking leakdown on a beater? While everyone's perceptions can be different, the opinion of a fellow enthusiast can be invaluable.

Excellent advice.....except in this situation the seller is a LONG TIME Pelicanite (5+ years) & the car was as good or better than
described.
Having another Pellicanite look at it in this instance would have been totally unnecessary.

The seller just failed miserably when it came to "doing unto others......"

NEVER take the word of the seller, be it friend, family, or a fellow Pelican. Cars seem to bring out the worst in people. Frindships have been ruined over such transactions, so to trust the rep of anyone is a mistake.

Impartial/knowledgeable third party is the key.

Hey Wayne,, is there anyway to put in a buyer/seller comment or rating system similiar to ebay ?? Even an ongoing thread where we could post comments on our experiences with fellow Pelicans??

I was thinking the same thing. However, there are two sides to every deal. It sounds as if Cam has told a story that Mark Howard would have a hard time explaining. However, to be fair, he should have his say. A rating system could turn into a real pita, and maybe legal liability for Wayne.

I have patronized fellow Pelican's services. I always do a search based on their user name. For example, I bought wheels from Jason Cullen. I did a search and found lots of very positve feedback. I therefore felt comfortable proceeding with the deal. Same with Souk.

For Sonic and Rob,

One good option that we have used in the past is if someone is looking at a car, make a post here on Pelican looking for someone who lives in the area where the car is located. Most of us are glad to help and many of us have owned 911's for years and have a good idea what to look for in a used car.

I have personally gone out and viewed cars for others from all over the country. Taken photos and driven the cars to give them an impartial viewpoint on that they might be buying. In one case the car was immaculate, one other it was a POS. Most are fairly accurate but then life in Arizona is a lot easier for cars with no real winter.

This would not correct the issue with Cam, where the seller told him one thing then changed it after he arrived, but it sure helps a long distance buyer know if he/she should even be interested in the first place.

Rob, regarding your comments. As a fellow officer I know what you mean. Going through OCS does a lot for a person but it does not instill values. Most candidates are excellent but some are not as good.

I have been on both sides of the fence and worked for McDonnell Douglas and Boeing on overseas military contracts. I was flight crew and not "serving potato's" as were the KBR people Mark was talking about but the guys still in uniform will always view the contractors differently even though they know we used to be where they are right now. We did make more money than our counterparts but after 33 years in the cockpit most people feel that we deserved it. I appreciate your comments and if you need any help looking for a car in Arizona pls PM me.

BTW, I have a standard charge for viewing a car for someone. Send me a buck or two for fuel unless the car is close and one beer or drink. If you buy the car the second drink is on me! :)

JoeA

I agree, I was thinking of a bulletin board section where you just list the Pelican you're dealing with, the deal and positive or negative feedback.. then someone could search that thread. That way the other side could list a rebutal.. Maybe a two comment limit would be involked.

I too did a search on Mark after contacting him, here is a quote from a PM I sent him.......

"I am very interested in your car.
I did a search & found where you have driven & inspected
a few vehicles for Pelicanites.....how would you rate YOUR car?

Weekends will be best for me, may even skip the PPI if you can
vouch for your own car, lol."

Figured I had nothing to worry about...obviously I was wrong.

I have a problem in that I always think people will treat me the same way I would treat them......unfortunately it comes back to bite me sometimes.....just can't help it.

So how come the seller hasn't posted anything on this thread? He's been on this BBS as recently as this past weekend...

Actually, I believe he only has posted to state the car was sold.
This coincides with a time after I left Baton Rouge.

To my knowledge, there is NO WAY for me to manipulate a PM
"sent" to me.......somebody, moderator or Wayne should be able to look in to my mailbox & see the PM where he states...."and by the way, the price is $19,000".

Just in the event somebody might question if what I am saying is true because as was stated......"there are two sides to every story".

- Cam

I'm not sticking up for MH. I have no idea who he is. Fwiw-I believe Cam's story, because like Cam, I'm a trusting individual and have no reason to think he's lying. But to be fair, and I think all can agree, both sides need to be told to know the whole story. MH could verify that everything Cam has said is true, but then tell us his perspective on this, which might shed more light on the situation. Imagine a court system that listens only to the victim. Not good.

I'll say it again-it seems pretty blatant-Seller states the cost is "x". Cam does the drive. Now the seller changes cost to "x" + $$. That's pretty hard to rationalize/explain.

Btw-Does MH even know this thread exists?

I sent him a PM saying he might want to look at this thread, with the URL, several days ago. Not a peep since, nor a post on Pelican since that time.

I agree that both sides need to be told. It would be nice for Cam to hear why Mark did not call him on his cell phone and tell him while he was driving to Baton Rouge that the price had changed. It would be nice to hear why Mark did not tell him when Cam drove up to his house that the price had changed. As well it would be nice to hear why Mark did not offer to at least fill up Cam's gas tank for the drive home after wasting 10 hours time on the road when Mark changed the price after Cam arrived.

So far MH has not commented... which does not look good for him and makes Cam's story appear even more valid.

Joe

>Whoa, although it wasn't the nicest thing to do, it was legal and not necesarily wrong according to contract law.

I talked to my father, who is a lawyer, and he said that if there is verified (i.e. un-alterable) electronic record of an offer to sell at a price and a likewise written acceptance, you have a binding contract in most states, even though no money was exchanged.

You should be able to demand performance at $19K if he still has the car. If sold, he should be liable for the $4K difference, which is the actual replacement value if he in fact sold the car for $23K. Your acquisition costs (rental car, time) are irrelevant since that was part of your expectations.

If it was convenient and desirable for you to file, I see an easy $4K small-claims (~$50 fee) lawsuit. These laws are in place to discourage BS like this.

I buy and sell cars often, and sometimes I will say (or email), something like "I really want to get $21.5K, but if I get no bites in a few weeks then I might accept 19K". Selective memory works with buyers too..."You told me you'd accept 19K!!!" So there are two sides to every story.

But his PM states "the price is 19K" then that's pretty ironclad and I'd stick it to him.

it's starting to look like the silence speaks volumes,btw,thats an old sales trick that would only work on someone coming that far and usually does,most,after driving that far would unhappily just pay the rest and the seller knows this,if you don't, what does he care.if he were nice enough to fill his tank he wouldn't have done this in the first place,there is a lot going on down there and maybe he just hasn't had the time to log on[I guess Pelican would know if he has been lurking or not]if he wants to continue having a trusting relationship with us you would think he would want to clear the air imo

Martin,

Every person who receives a PM is sent an email I believe. He does not have to log onto Pelican, only check his email.

Agree with you about "silence speaking volumn's" and the longer it goes the worse. Just hope his C/O does not get wind of this. Even though its not military related, officers are expected to be stand up guys even at home off duty. This aint helping any...

Joe A

Looking at Cam's original post, there wasn't acceptance of the offer, and up until there is acceptance, the seller can revoke/alter the offer -- which he did here by changing his price before there was acceptance. Beyond that, generally transactions over $500 or so are governed by the statute of frauds which requires that the contract be in writing (YMMV, not sure of the law of LA).

Very sorry to hear Cam got shafted by BH, but very unlikely he's got any legal recourse. The law doesn't protect you from a**holes in many cases unfortunately.

T.

Well, I dont know what constitutes "acceptance", but I did tell him that barring any major surprise I planned on buying the car.

If you think about it, one would not rent a car "one-way" paying MORE THAN TRIPLE the cost of a normal rental
(one returned to the same point) if they didnt plan on getting home some other way.....:rolleyes:

thanks guys,

- Cam

I would hope the opposite.

ianc