What is this 911 worth?

[oly]

I'm seriously thinking about buying this car and would like to know what you think it is worth.

1984 911 Carrera (Euro) - Non-Sunroof Coupe
http://www.tonygarcia.org/911carrera
Asking price: $22,500

Although I know that they influence price heavily, I don't yet have prepurchase inspection results. So I'm looking for a high and low estimate to bracket what it may be worth.

For reference, these are some estimates for a US 1984 911:
Excellence:$14,980 / $17,032 / $22,800
NADA: $14,100 / $16,000 / $21,400

[oly]

Text from seller:

1984 911 European Carrera Sun-Roof Delete (rare) - Price: $22,500.00

Clean title. No apparent accident damage. Appears to be original paint (all panels match, body gaps and panel alignment are excellent).

1984 Euro 911 Carrera Lightweight

Euro 231HP vs USA 204HP

Factory Sunroof Delete Option (lightest weight Carrera you can get)

Factory Cruise Control Delete Option

Brand New Bilstein Sports Front/Rear Installed (<100 miles on them)

RC Engineering Flow Matched and Rebuilt Injectors Installed (<100 miles on them)

Valve Adjustment, Oil Change, and new Spark Plugs (<100 miles since)

6" & 7" Factory Fuchs (tires have about 35% tread)

Venetian Blue Exterior with Black Interior 81,650 miles

231Hp European Engine. No leaks. Fast and smooth. No smoke hot or cold. Excellent leakdown and compression.

5 Speed (shifts perfectly) - Clutch is light, smooth, and feels strong

H4 Headlight Upgrade

4 spoke Carrera steering wheel upgrade

Body straight, no dents. Some stone chips.

This car is the car you want if you're going to start club racing/time trialing as it's the lightest, most powerful, stiffest 911 Carrera you can buy.

[Want to be]

16-17k. i am seeing some carrera going for less, but this appears to be a nice car.

good luck

jpc

[kevjandon]

OLY, the first thing to note is that this is a Euro car. I don't know how things are in Vermont, but this thing may have a hard time getting registered in some states that have smog testing. This limits the buying market now and will limit the market when you go sell it. Additionally, the ad makes no mention of documentation. That speedo was converted at some time and there is no guarantee on the mileage without documentation. This holds true for service history (prior to what this owner has done) too.

With that being said, I offer the following. I think this car has been up here for sale before (or at least there was one similar to this one). I don't believe that the this was a factory Cruise delete. Also, if your looking for factory light, this car obviously has AC, so it could have come lighter from the factory.

The presentation is great and the looks good over all. I don't care for the aftermarket stereo and speakers nor the aftermarket alarm with led's on the pass door.

Keep in mind, this is an 84 carrara. 911SC's are more desireable in my opinon and for 22K you can have one bad ass SC.

Personally, I think this car is worth about 16K. While it's a sunroof delete, it is a Euro and will be hard to sell down the road.

[ICD]

If it had a rebuilt engine it might be worth that kind of cash, but the asking price is in the "very nice G50" range. I think the $15 - $17 price is more like it in this market. IMHO.

[ICD]

And one more tid-bit. There is a guy in Minneapolis with a Euro Carrera (1984), original owner I think, listed for $14,500 or so on Carsoup.com. Has not sold in a year.

[oly]

Want to be, kevjandon, and ICD,

Thanks for the advice! The owners (there are more than one) believe that the extra 10%+ Hp of the Euro and the sunroof delete make the car worth $22,500 as a track car. The extra Hp is desirable to me and the sunroof delete is a "must have" because of my height. But I tend to agree that the price is excessive.

Art

[dad911]

Originally posted by oly
........and the sunroof delete is a :must have" because of my height. ......

I find aftermarket seats a big help. they can typically be mounted lower.

[Jay H]

I've been watching these early 3.2 cars for about a year now. I'd like a mint/perfect '86 to maybe replace my 964. $22.5k is G-50 territory. The early 915 3.2's tend to run in the low teens to mid to upper teens range for very nice drivers.

I would think a concours perfect car (everything in place, no dings, no untouched up stone chips, all trim perfect, minimal wear, no leaks, very clean car inside and underneath) in excellent mechanical condition with mileage under 50k would bring in the low $20k range.

This price is an asking price and you don't know what the owner(s) would do if you waved $17k in their face. I'd estimate this car is probably a $15-18K car. Fall is looming and that tends to push prices down in the snow belt states where cars go into storage. It seems the location in the country effects prices. Higher prices are in the east coast and midwest and decrease as you move west and south. Vermont may dictate a higher price than the same car in California.

For comparison, I looked a a nice '86 3.2 with 37,000 on the odometer and that asking price was $18k in my midwest area.

I agree that typically, the Euro spec cars bring a bit less money because of the emissions testing laws in some states. However, getting a Euro spec car to pass emissions is not that hard if you have the proper updates in place. This factor may be a non issue if this car has been properly imported.

Just my $.02.

Jay
90 964

[Eli K]

In my opinion a euro car is more desirable. It's much lighter than the US version. Suspension is different, engine compression, etc.
A great track car candidate....

[Jay H]

Originally posted by Eli K
In my opinion a euro car is more desirable.

My brother just picked up an '83 911SC that is a Euro car. He specifically was looking for a Euro car and that was worth something to him to have the Euro spec 3.0. So, there are definitely buyers out there that find this desireable.

[rrpjr]

Incidentally, the weight difference between stock Euro and US coupe, not factoring in various deletes, is around 90 kilograms. This car appears to be from California, so maybe smog issues have been resolved. Maybe. No "apparent" accident damage? I'm a Euro owner and love it and obviously don't buy the sweeping statements about their value. It all depends. Documentation and PPI are key.

[Jay H]

It's also very hard to find two cars of the same year, same condition and same mileage where one is a US model and one is a Euro model and then compare values. Condition is everything since these cars are so old now...

[oly]

dad911, Jay H, Eli K, and rrpjr,

Thanks for the posts.

Art

[oly]

Eli K and rrpjr,

You guys said:

"It's much lighter than the US version. Suspension is different,..."

and

"...the weight difference between stock Euro and US coupe, not factoring in various deletes, is around 90 kilograms."

I have not seen this information in the books that I have (Redbook and Original Porsche 911). Where have you seen this information? Could a/c delete be part of the 90 kg?

Art

[Jay H]

It seems easier to find a Euro version 911SC or early 3.2 Carrera without a sunroof, factory A/C, power windows (manual windows seem very rare on any 3.2's), cruise control and a leather interior. The US cars typically came with more equipment as standard, hence more weight. Probably due to us lazy, fat US buyers that demanded more creature comforts in our cars.

My first 911, a US spec '86 delivered to my local Porsche dealership when new, had minimal equipment other than 16" Fuch's rims, but it still came standard with a sunroof, power windows and leather seating surfaces on the front seats. It did not have cruise, a factory radio, power seats, etc.

I know Euro ride heights are much lower than their US equivalents due to our bumper laws. I don't know of other suspension changes between the two models...

[ChrisBennet]

I know I'd pay a little more for a non-sunroof car it does seem way overpriced.
Because it is Euro it won't be in the same class as US 3.2 Carrera (F Stock). I don't know if it will be competitive in whatever class it does run in.
-Chris

[Eli K]

Chris, I was under the impression that the Euro cars ran in the same class...

[AvonGil]

22K will buy you a low milage great condition G50 Coupe. Id rather the G50, but thats just me!

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Eli K
Chris, I was under the impression that the Euro cars ran in the same class...

Just to be safe I looked at the on-line rule book:
(https://www.pca.org/racing/docs/pca_rules_2005.pdf)
'84-89 Carrera's run in "F"
'84-89 Euro Carrera's run in "E"
-Chris