garage suggestions please

[Jgordon]

Hey.

It looks as if we're finally redoing the garage. I've been reading some of the searches, and I have an idea of what I want, but the contractor is in the process of gearing up to actually do the work, and I wanted to get your opinions.

He's going to make it into a finished "shell". Basically, he's doing floors, walls, and ceiling. So the important aspects are electric wiring (so we don't have to tear down the walls to rewire) and lighting. Floors are important too, but that can be done/redone later.

Here's my artistic impression of the garage as it stands:


From previous discussions, I've gathered that the most important aspects are lighting and electricity. Below is a basic sketch of what I'm thinking (ideas in red).



I'd like to box in the oil tank (for aesthetic reasons) and put in a work bench on the right side. in that, plumbed into the bathroom plumbing, is a shop sink. Above the workbench would be track lighting. In addition, we're going with electrical outlets every 6 feet, and at least one 220 outlet for whatever needs we have.

My questions are:

1. What kind of lighting? I know flourescent is longer lasting and cooler (also good for low ceilings, as it is low profile), but do they give good light? do they buzz? I would prefer halogen or incandescent, but not sure what the options are. Before I knew what the ceiling limitations were, I thought we could do recessed cans (6 per bay). now I'm not sure what my options are.

2. Floor - it's concrete right now, with some cracks. I'm thinking we should, at a minimum, calk the cracks. But instead, I'm thinking maybe lay a thin layer of new concrete that we can put a slight slope in, toward the door?

2a. Floor finish - I was thinking of an epoxy or some "sealing" type finish. But I heard that this might prevent moisture from escaping, and that that might freeze and crack the concrete? So thinking about a polished concrete or stained look. I guess the downside there is that it's more porous than the epoxies, and might stain?

3. Electric - do we need more than one 220 outlet? eventually, I'd like to put in a lift (another discussion for another time, especially with the ceiling restrictions). I think outlets every 6 feet would be sufficient, but I'm willing to hear otherwise.

4. Heating - we'd like to heat the garage to help keep the cars within it. Any suggestions along this front? The rest of the house is heated by oil/water heat, and we were thinking about running a dedicated loop off that system into the garage. It is, however, expensive. Any alternatives that we should be considering?

5. Anything I'm forgetting? Bench, cabinets, flatscreen, couches, etc. can all come later - I just want to make sure that the shell is good to go before decorating and accessorizing it.

Great thread I found while doing a search:

[petrolblue83911]

My garage looks nearly identical! -but the Previous owner put it in so I didn't get to make the decisions!

-For the 220, I've got it on a plug box that has 2 plugs, one on each side, I've never used more than 1 at a time, are you going to put a lift in? if so I think it would run on 220 so you may need more than 1 plug

-I like to sealed look of the concrete epoxy so that you can clean up spills easier, and I like you're idea of a slanted floor so you can wash out the insides. If you could choose, I'd probably say try for a drain in the center instead of slanting however because a slanted floor may be a pain at some point!

-I've got electrical service all around, probably every 8 feet or so, and I love that because there is always something that needs power and I hate to have to move the car or always grab an extention

-Good luck you'll love it when it's done!!

[widebody911]

Where's you air compressor?

Check out my shop: http://rennlight.com/shop

[Jgordon]

Petrol, I wish I could take credit for the sloping idea. it's come up before here though. I like the idea of a drain, but the garage is already built, and it's under the house. So excavation would be difficult. Plus, advice from a builder on another thread was drains in floors are a bad idea - clogging, freezing, cracking, etc. I'm thinking if we do a 1/16 run (I believe that was the spec quoted in another thread) and seal the floor to the walls, I should be able to wash anything in there and also not really notice the slope.

I would like to get a lift, but that is definitely down the road. Not sure what kind b/c of the ceiling height.

Thom, your garage is definitely a source of inspiration. I had considered an air compressor more of an accessory - i was going to put it on my list of things to install when the garage was finished. Are you saying it should, or needs to, go in while the thing's being constructed? I was also thinking of putting it outside in a small shed, for noise and spark reasons.

What do you guys think of lighting? Flourescent? High pressure sodium? metal halide?

[MikeSid]

Unless you are going to leave them on most of the time, Sodium and Metal Halide will take too long to start up.

[Jgordon]

That answers that question. Have they made enough advancements in flourescents to get good color spectrum and no buzzing/flickering?

[MikeSid]

Flourescents come in a variety of colors now and the buzzing and flickering have been minimized. Seems like whenever this comes up, some lighting guy will come out of the woodwork with real answers. But from what I have gleaned in the past, the new flourescent fixtures are the way to go.

[widebody911]

Originally posted by Jgordon
I had considered an air compressor more of an accessory - i was going to put it on my list of things to install when the garage was finished.

Do it now. Lots of prior threads on plumbing, etc. You need to take this into consideration for your 220v loop as well. If you can put it outside, that's even better. That's what I did, with a small, noise-insulated shed. It's not perfect, but it's floor space I'm not wasting, and I don't have to deal with the racket.

What do you guys think of lighting? Flourescent? High pressure sodium? metal halide?

I think for home garages, flourescent is the way to go. I did mine on two circuits, so when I really need a lot of light, I can turn on the extras, but not suck up all the juice the rest of the time. In my house garage, I installed a drop ceiling and flourescents. I can barely hear them, and that ceiling is only 9' high.

[na2ub]

Flourescents are tried and true. They will not make a buzz sound and you can always get the different type bulbs to change the lighting "feel". If you are really stuck on incandescent, you can put them over your workbench. I would stay away from other lighting because of the excessive heat. You will thank me in the summer, especially assuming your garage will not be in A/C?

Doug

[im4duke]

I used to live in the NE and the best large space heating I saw was a big ceiling-hung natural gas unit forced air unit. Kind of industrial. You have probably seen some in train stations, garages, etc. Thermostatically controlled, it would warm up that space in 1-2 minutes and shut off. Natural gas is easy to plumb. It would also allow you to keep it relatively cool when you're not in there and the quickly heat it up when you want to do some work.

I haven't seen an oil-fired standalone space heater before. Otherwise, you would have to put in a radiator off your existing system and engineer it to handle the additional pressure drop. Radiator would be nice consistent steady heat, but wouldn't allow you to control the temp as quickly.

[DW SD]

I like flourescents - you can buy 4' or 8'. Just get a bunch and space them accordingly. Close to the walls (within 24") provide a lot of light, which brightens things up (assuming walls are painted white).

Also, I used cheap, light in color lineoleum (like in the 80s for a kitchen). It is easy to clean up, cheap and reflects a lot of light. Mine is off-white. I mop it once a month and sweep regularly. Oil doesn't stain unless you leave it. Welding burns through it.

Doug

[VincentVega]

Couple point. 22' isnt that much space to have 2 cars and work space. You might think about putting your work bench in the front. For power, install subpanel in the garage. Then when you need to make changes down the road it's much simpler. I never thought I would need additional 220 outlets, but after buying a plasma cutter and an A/C unit I had to add 2. Easily done with the sub panel.

[Jims5543]

I second the Compressor and plumbing now vote.

You could use the dead space above the heating tank to build a room for it and sound proof it. I have seen where people have put the comprssor up near the ceiling and built a box over it and sounf proofed it. That is my plan, to use some dead space for it.

[randywebb]

beam? or post?

I bought a few of the cheapo halogen lights - $8 each. I may put in flourescents too someday...

Be sure to watch the angles (the mounting location will determine that) to minimize glare. I posted the title/author of a woodworking book a while back & he goes into all that really well.

I like elec. outlets ON the front of the bench and BEHIND the bench... lots easier.

[73911guy]

I like the flourescents due to the low amount of heat they put out, as compared to incandescent or halogen, the low cost of operation, and the amount of light they put out.

Halogens, especially, put out a very large amount of light but unless the fixture is a long way away from the top of your head they'll burn you into submission. (remember the GE commercial for the range with an oven that cooked a chicken in 8 minutes - it used halogens). I also worry when you read the fine print on the box the halogen fixtures come in, and a lot of them are rated for exterior use only, due to the heat the fixture produces (they also have a nasty habit of shattering the lens, again due to the heat they produce. It may be OK outside but not over my cars!).

If you go with flourescents, make sure that you get them rated for cold starts (the standard flourescents won't start when it gets cold, like below about 40 degrees). In my case, I used "HO" 8' long, 2 bulb fixtures without a reflector, mounted 4" below the ceiling drywall on a chain, per the instructions due to the heat from the ballast. Cost was around $50 a fixture plus bulbs. Current drain is only an amp or two per fixture so you don't tie up a lot of breaker space. There are other fixtures that use electronic ballasts that are more energy efficient but are more costly up front and the bulbs aren't as readily available.

An 8 footer over the bench is a must, as you can never have enough light there. The shop I ran for 5 years liked around 200 foot candles at bench heighth, the "standard" was only 100.

I agree also with planning for an air compressor and 220 volt outlets - its cheaper to put together a "package" job than to keep calling the electrician back for every change you think of later.

In my 25 x 23 space for two cars, I have three 8 foot fixtures plus one over the work bench, and its just about right.

Jim

[real550A]

I put in 1 circuit for flourescents, and 1 circuit for incandescents, each on seperate switches.
When I walk in, turn on the 4 incandescents. If I'm going to be there for a while, use the flourescents or both.
Seems to work well.

Another hint: Put a 220 outlet somewhere near the door so you can weld outside if need be. I do it quite often.

[75blkcarrera]

JGordon, I built a (shop) looks like a garage,three years ago after much thought. It is 700 ft., good for three cars to park and great for two to work on. There is never to much light! I have entry lighting(come into the shop to get something and leave). Seperate workbench lighting. Front and back and right and left devided lighting. ( If I am working on the car on the lift, why light the other side not really being used.) Low temp. ballasts for the floresent lights. 200 amp.sub panel a must, with 2 connects, one close to the main door(for outside jobs). NO drain! Nothing is ever leval. Wash outside. I have a drain in my attached garage and everytime I would drop a socket it would go to that **** drain. Can you put a compressor in a different room or outside in its own structure? Much quiter. In your plans you have the work area to the right. I think the area between the oil tank and the bathroom might be something you might consider. The right side is an area that will be needed if you are opening doors and whatever. I put in an single overhead door opposite the main doors for the opportenity to have more natural light and great ventilation on good days. Hope this helps. JJC

[randywebb]

I agree re the heat from halogens. FWIW, I only use them much in winter and they are 8-10 ft. up. They also draw more current than fl. lights so will cost more to run.

BTW - a skylight is a great thing to have - a sliding cover will prevent overheating on hot days.

[johnsjmc]

I would turn the oil tank across the end and place the work bench between it and the washroom.
You will need some heat in the washroom to prevent freezeup in a NY winter. I would insulate the washroom walls and put in a small baseboard electric heater for it only. If heating the whole space a ceiling hung unit heater is good. You might look into a radient tube type.
Flourescent lighting may have improved but I think they are slow to start in cold weather also.
I would also second the suggestions about a compressor and an electric subpanel allowing easy electrical additions later.

[David]

I put some electrical sockets in the upper cabinets that are switched by the light switch. That way when I turn on the lights the stereo and what ever else I want turns on. I also alternated the electrical circuits so if I have two power tools together they can be on different circuits. I would build the cabinets just like inside your home. I made mine with 2x4's and they look bad, I plan to tear them out and start over. Think about what's going to go where: I set areas for my tool box, a TV, drill press, etc before I built cabinets so that everything would fit.