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beepbeep's Avatar
 
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911teo: If only thing you need is basic MAP-based fuel/spark then MOTEC is waste of time.

Sequential injection won't net you any horsepower gain. Frankly, you could build hot 3.8 RSR engine with Megasquirt if you wanted.

When it comes to N/A engines, EFI usually doesn't do much else but opens and closes injectors according to few sensor inputs...no need to shell out 2000 bucks on expensive box that does it.

On hot turbo engine, it's another story.

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Last edited by beepbeep; 10-15-2005 at 10:28 AM..
Old 10-15-2005, 01:44 AM
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How about building a 3.8 RS engine from yours or just buy a 3.3 turbo and drop it in. Of course if you put in a 3.3T you'll want to pull it back out a week later and put EFI on it.
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Old 10-15-2005, 05:20 AM
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Wait'l you see Randy W's new engine......
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Old 10-15-2005, 08:45 AM
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I run Motec M48 on my cars...it's awesome...specially for turbo cars like mine...there are a lot of features that can be programed into the ECU..but for a street car that is somewhat mild.. there are probably some better ways to spend that money on the motor..not to mention shorter gearing ,lightening the car , suspension, brakes and other performance mods
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Old 10-15-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
Wait'l you see Randy W's new engine......
I did hear he was pleased
Old 10-15-2005, 09:42 AM
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Motec M48 is a great choice. Not at cutesy as the M600 (ie more of a DOS based simple layout) , but does all one would ever need -

It is also what Randy used, I believe.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
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Old 10-15-2005, 10:01 AM
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I thought M600 was the minimum for a 6 cilynder car.

Suspensions, brakes etc have been addressed. The car is a street car... a daily driver at that... But it has to hold its own at the track.

Hot 3.8RS is an option... but it will be $15k.

U guys don't like the supercharger idea uh?
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Old 10-15-2005, 10:33 AM
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I like the SC idea.......

Cheers
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Old 10-15-2005, 10:38 AM
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SC idea is actually a good one, IMO. For you, it is what *I* would do.
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"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-15-2005, 10:43 AM
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This is taken directly from www.turboperformance.com so take it with a grain of salt... but it shows a dynorun of a 993 before and after the SC (with intercooler)...

Check the torque curve of the after....

http://www.turboperformance.com/Porsche/SCKits/993SC/993%20intercooled%20vs%20stock.pdf
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Old 10-15-2005, 10:56 AM
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Very believable chart. Only problem I've heard is under extended track use in hot weather, things tend to get a bit hot w/o the intercooler.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-15-2005, 02:09 PM
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TPC have just finished developing the intercooled version. I would olny go for that one.
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Old 10-15-2005, 02:16 PM
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Yeah , the M48 was installed in 2000 so I know Motec has made some upgrades since....but it does pretty much everything you would want.. I even have a ice water res in the race car...starting a .6 bar of boost the Motec activate the pump and spray's the intercooler...anything for a little advatage
The motor will definitley get hot under hard conditions if you do not have an intercooler...I had some heating problems at Thunderhill when the car was new and the Motec will peel back boost levels in conjunction with rising temps in order to protect the motor..here is a shot of the spray bar I was talking about , simple to make and kind of cool
Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
Motec M48 is a great choice. Not at cutesy as the M600 (ie more of a DOS based simple layout) , but does all one would ever need -

It is also what Randy used, I believe.
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Old 10-15-2005, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rdane
The red a 3.356 CIS / the blue is a 3.2 Carrera with late model Varioram intake and Motec engine managment.
Since this is my old engine, I'll say a few things. You will note that at 3500 rpm the torque and HP curves are the same for both engines, and at 6300 the 3,2L curves keeps going. Both results are more from the Varioram than the Motec M48, but would not have been possible to create without some brand of EFI. The 3.2L was a completely stock US Carrera longblock. The 3.356 was a Porsche prototype engine.

If you are trying to squeeze everything possible out of a stock longblock where the rules allow alternate intakes that motronic will not work with in that application, but the rules allow EFI, then Motec is a good idea. This is what I did back in 2000 for ASP Solo 2, and it helped us trophy at Nationals. I am very glad I purchased Motec, because it allowed more sensors, inputs, outputs and table settings than any other EFI available at the time, AND it still works well on my current 2.8L race motor. I spent the money once (about 4K except for tuning), received all the software upgrades for free, and 5 years later have an EFI system that is still close to state of the art.

If your needs do not match mine, then Motec is probably not necessary. For me it was the solution I needed. Best of luck!

Oh.. and Dane, I think the cost of my 3.2L was right around what you spent (if you total up all your aggravation... Now my 2.8L, that another story, and another graph.
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Last edited by Randy W; 10-15-2005 at 05:09 PM..
Old 10-15-2005, 04:58 PM
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Randy makes a good point. There is a 911 Toyo spec class in NorCal and the most consistent car was running Motec, I am sure there were other factors involved but that was a class where you could run a diiferent management systemb but very little else.....Motec has a great web site with password access to download software updates etc.
I do remember the mid 90's when Motec could be a challenge..we used to call it " having a Motec moment" but since 1999 I have never had a single problem .
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Old 10-15-2005, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 911teo

U guys don't like the supercharger idea uh?
Nope. I don't like supercharges. Not that you give a damn.

Here is my 3.0L 930 motor running 13 lbs of boost.

Dean
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Old 10-15-2005, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy W
Oh.. and... I think the cost of my 3.2L was right around what you spent (if you total up all your aggravation...
Got me on that one Randy....if you look in that light Motec was cheap and more importantly reusable

The reason I posted the comparison was Matteo had asked about advntages in a street car. Long, flat torque curves make great street cars while race cars can take better advantage of the high end HP curves.

When I discussed the advantages of Motec for my 3.4 engine, neither Chris or Alex would speculate on any gains we'd get from a conversion to Motec and ITB. Concensus was we'd gain length on the HP at higher rpm but no appreciate gain in numbers with out changing cams.

Basically little gain for that engine..or I suspect the 3.6 by going to Motec. Varioram on the other hand is an obvious improvement in low end torque.

Last edited by rdane; 10-15-2005 at 08:00 PM..
Old 10-15-2005, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lorenfb
For a stock engine, no real overall benefit!
Agreed. Where the system allows you the most bang for your buck is when you customize it to match your custom engine.

-Wayne

Old 10-15-2005, 08:59 PM
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