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Motec.... worth it?

A while back I was reading Wayne's book on the 911 engine.
One of the upgrades that caught my eye was the use of a full sequential fuel injection system.

I was wondering what real world benefit you could acheive for a street car. I realize that a Motec system would allow a lot of flexibility and a lot of infos for a race car/team... But for street use is it worth the money?

How much HP/Torque do you gain with full sequential fuel injection vs the standard? Plus I would be starting from a Varioram... so the jump is not going to be as big as if I had MFI.

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Old 10-14-2005, 11:48 AM
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It's not just the sequential FI, It' the whole package of intakes, throttles, sensors and most of all a programing language that the manufacturer is openly willing to share w/ the end user.

No more back engineering and kludges to get it to work

The use of MOTEC or other system like DTA and TWM intakes allows the use of cams w/ a reasonable amount of lift, duration and overlap. You can get an easy 375hp from a 3.8 w/ the right RSR type setup or an easy 340 streeetable hp.

w/ Motronic a 3.8 will be limited to the low 300s by the throttle body/ metering system which limits the cam specs. The resulting engine is very tractable because of the lack of cam overlap but nowhere near as powerfull at the top end for the same reason.
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:29 PM
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For a stock engine, no real overall benefit!
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lorenfb
For a stock engine, no real overall benefit!
Agreed! Other than the user programability issue
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:39 PM
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Let me rephrase a famed adage...

Futzing with electronic crap costs money; How fast do you wanna go? (and how do you want to pay for it - parts $$ or labor $$)?
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:45 PM
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here is the deal....
- TPC Supercharger with intercooler $7,000 plus labor... 355 rwhp but all reliability issues...

- Motec plus wild cams.... $7,000 plus labor... possibly 310 rwhp... but a hell of a N/A engine...

So I have $10k still burning in my pocket... which way would you go?
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:55 PM
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You can easily get low 300s froma 3.8RS spec motor w/ Motronic.

The happier the cam and the larger the ports/valves the worse it will be for street use.
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Old 10-14-2005, 12:58 PM
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I am in the process of changing from my twin plug 3.5 from MFI/crankfire, to a Motec system. I think it will be a huge difference in all driving conditions. Should be on the car in the next 2 weeks. I will post and share pics and impressions.

Paul
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:10 PM
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For a street car, I'd think a supercharger would provide a lot more bang for the buck. For a track car, it's a different kind of 'bang' you'd need to watch out for.
Old 10-14-2005, 01:12 PM
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motec efi

It will not matter what efi set up you use if you do not do a good job of tuning it then you have flush your money away .MOTEC is one of the best efi out there but you will pay for it .You can spend $1100-$3500on a stand alone and not gain a thing if you do not know what you are doing.
The big problem with EFI is not the set up it is that hardly any one takes the time to read the manual before they fit it to the car ie i get call on thing like the car will not start ?or dude i got fuel and spark but it will not run right .i would say did you read the manual they will come back with sort of !this is when i know it is going to be a long phone call .then you have to help them with the ECU configuration ie if the ecu is set with a v8 map and you have a v6 them then you would do the configuration to fit your engine this is what i find with efi it not the unit it is the man not reading the manual first

www.emeraldperformance.com
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:37 PM
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9m (ninemeister) in England has a Motec setup for the 3.6L that uses the factory wiring harness (with an adapter). A friend of mine bought one and it was suprisingly reasonably priced (for Motec). Like under $2K.
http://www.porschetuning.co.uk/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=NinemeisterContent&file=index&req=viewarticle&articleid=4&topic=4&articlename=MOTEC%20:%20How%20we%20work%20the%20ma gic
-Chris
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Old 10-14-2005, 02:23 PM
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For your car - an absolute, total, complete waste of money.
No gain. Looked into it via many many hours of "research".......
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Old 10-14-2005, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Craig911
For your car - an absolute, total, complete waste of money.
After my own research and several interviews of the local Motec experts, what he said Didn't help that one of the engines that had both vari ram and Motec and cost a bizillion dollars couldn't better CIS on the local dyno.

Porsche puts out some pretty good stuff from the factory.
Old 10-14-2005, 03:31 PM
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I didn't think the $2k more for Motec was worth it for me. So I chose a mid priced EFI system. EFI was the second best thing that I did to my car after turboing it. No question that EFI is worth it to me.

You forgot a third option. Turbo with EFI. I think your car is worthy

Dean
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Old 10-14-2005, 04:29 PM
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GIAC chip reflash would be the only improvement........but you have a Euro seup so I would not know for certain.
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-14-2005, 04:39 PM
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Don't know about adding turbos to the Vram... May as well get a 993 TT engine...
I just love the power delivery of the Varioram with lightweight flywheel...

I am going to look more into supercharging the 3.6. Same peak power as a 993 TT and bettter torque curve. I have read a couple of articles in Excellence of people successfully taking their supercharged 993 to the track...

Maybe I'll just leave it as it is...
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Old 10-14-2005, 06:42 PM
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A local guy did this:

2.8
Varioram
Motec

How's them apple$?
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- Craig 3.4L, SC heads, 964 cams, B&B headers, K27 HF ZC turbo, Ruf IC. WUR & RPM switch, IA fuel head, Zork, G50/50 5 speed. 438 RWHP / 413 RWTQ -
"930 is the wild slut you sleep with who tries to kill you every time you "get it on" - Quote by Gabe
Movie: 930 on the dyno
Old 10-14-2005, 06:54 PM
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The red a 3.356 CIS / the blue is a 3.2 Carrera with late model Varioram intake and Motec engine managment.
Old 10-14-2005, 08:19 PM
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CIS can't be bettered? Porsche did a good job at the factory? In many areas, the second statement may be true, but CIS is not exactly one such example of Porsche's technical genius.

I don' t know enough about NA CIS engines--although my guess is that a properly tuned Motec on a Porsche NA CIS motor would give modest gains in HP and torque numbers, and significant gains in runnability--but there is no question that Motec will do wonders for a CIS Porsche turbo.

Porsche was still putting CIS on its turbos through 1992, for Chrissakes. "The factory" sure as heck could have done better than that on its "flagship cars" long before 1992...
Old 10-14-2005, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M.
Porsche was still putting CIS on its turbos through 1992, for Chrissakes. "The factory" sure as heck could have done better than that on its "flagship cars" long before 1992... [/B]
Err...I believe it had more to do with lack of development money than any kind of technical advantages CIS had.

CIS is cumbersome, heavy and performance unfriendly system that has nothing to do on sport car engine.

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Old 10-15-2005, 01:42 AM
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