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Porsche Crest Yet Another Winter Suspension Project.. advice needed

I'm joining the ranks of the neophyte wrenches and reworking my front suspension (will do the rear next, but I'm trying to keep it as two discrete jobs).

Here's what's planned (1971 T): I am trying to go relatively stock, the car is almost completely original except for the paint (crappy white respray over original Albert Blue). I do want to get the suspension a little firmer than stock. I am planning to lower to around Euro ride height, do turbo tie rods & bumpsteer kit, polygraphite, and a strut brace. I will be replacing the ball joints, every bushing, etc... I intend on doing adjustable spring plates in the rear (WEVO?).

I have a couple of questions:
1/ How do I know the size of my front sway bar?

2/ I will be doing the Turbo tie rods. Does the kit include new tie rod ends, or is this an additional item?

3/ I have Boges struts. I will probably replace the struts, since they are 35 years old. Any suggestions? I was looking at Bilstein Sports and HDs, but I'm open to anything.

4/ Wheel bearings are cheap, and I don't mind spending the money. However, my look perfect, and the packing was amazingly intact - should I replace them?

5/ I've already got 1 off, but is there an easy way to get the wheel hub end cap off with scratching the hub itself?

6/ Is a tie rod end puller pretty useful? What about the tie rod installation wrench?

7/ Is the Rennline strut bar good, or is there a better value?


8/ How much will I regret not going to bigger s-bars and t-bars? If I change, what is the recommendation? I will use the car for street driving, with some autox and and fairly infrequent lapping (DE).

9/ Finally, the seals on my brake calipers look a little old and tired. This seems like an important repair - I'm a little intimidated by the caliper rebuild in 101 Projects. Is it hard? I have M calipers. Should I just get new struts too? I am trying to avoid this because I beleive maintained M calipers will do just fine for my application.

I have received so much inspiration from P-heads. I appreciate the empowerment to tackle stuff I never would have dreamed of trying before.

Thanks,
Alex

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Last edited by naparsei; 10-16-2005 at 07:26 PM..
Old 10-15-2005, 08:04 PM
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bump... it's probably a bad idea to start a thread on a Saturday night
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Old 10-16-2005, 07:25 PM
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Anyone? I've got the car apart, and am hoping someone can answer any or all of these questions.
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:41 AM
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Hay Alex, looks like we will be undertaking the same winter project Here is what I have initially selected to replace and get Please help me with my shopping list and spend some money I will also be interested in any replies you get to your thread. If nothing, then we will just have to try our best on our own
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:54 AM
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Re: Yet Another Winter Suspension Project.. advice needed

Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei
4/ Wheel bearings are cheap, and I don't mind spending the money. However, my look perfect, and the packing was amazingly intact - should I replace them?

9/ Finally, the seals on my brake calipers look a little old and tired. This seems like an important repair - I'm a little intimidated by the caliper rebuild in 101 Projects. Is it hard? I have M calipers. Should I just get new struts too? I am trying to avoid this because I beleive maintained M calipers will do just fine for my application.
I'll take these two. There is no need to replace your bearings if there is nothing wrong with them. Simply repack and you're good to go. My car has had the same front wheel bearings for a long time.

Caliper rebuilding is really very easy once you've done it once. The hardest part is getting the old pistons out. I use compressed air to coax the pistons out, but there are other methods. Unless you're planning on tracking the car, I wouldn't worry about upgrading the brakes now. A rebuild and some good pads and fluid and they should be fine.

Mike
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:00 PM
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Yes,
I have been watching your thread with interest.

You didn't order new tie rod ends... does the turbo tie rod kit come with them?

I will keep you posted on my progress.

Alex
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:05 PM
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the car is apart, but i will still answer the tie rod puller tool que. it is very useful BUT, i would substitute the pcar one with a cheapo pitman arm puller. i got both. the pcar one i got for free, and the pitman arm puller i paid something like $10. i think it would work perfectly, and save money too. you can find the puller at any auto parts store. it comes in two sizes, choose carefully, but my money is on the bigger one.
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:06 PM
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Hi Alex, I was assuming the tie rod kit comes with everything!?! But I have not made my order yet, the jury is still out on what parts I need, and what is just a nice to have (whilst you are in there!!)...
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:15 PM
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Re: Yet Another Winter Suspension Project.. advice needed

Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei


I have a couple of questions:
1/ How do I know the size of my front sway bar?

2/ I will be doing the Turbo tie rods. Does the kit include new tie rod ends, or is this an additional item?

3/ I have Boges struts. I will probably replace the struts, since they are 35 years old. Any suggestions? I was looking at Bilstein Sports and HDs, but I'm open to anything.


5/ I've already got 1 off, but is there an easy way to get the wheel hub end cap off with scratching the hub itself?

6/ What about the tie rod installation wrench?

7/ Is the Rennline strut bar good, or is there a better value?


8/ How much will I regret not going to bigger s-bars and t-bars? If I change, what is the recommendation? I will use the car for street driving, with some autox and and fairly infrequent lapping (DE).
Thanks, Steve & Vash.

It sound like Paul & I are still in the hunt for answer to #2 particularly...
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:20 PM
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Yes, I believe the turbo tie rods come as a complete kit.
And yes, Bilstein shocks are good. I got standard items and I am very pleased with the ride.
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Old 10-17-2005, 12:21 PM
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opps, yes the kit is all inclusive.

and get the LEMFORDER turbo tie rod kit. you save $20 on a cheaper kit initially, but you WILL spend more money when you need to replace it later. the boots dont last on the cheapos.
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Re: Yet Another Winter Suspension Project.. advice needed

[QUOTE]Originally posted by naparsei

By the time I finish this - maybe others will have answered your questions but, here goes.....

I have a couple of questions:
1/ How do I know the size of my front sway bar?

** Look at the end of the sway bar where it slides thru the bushing on the control arm and take your metric scale and measure. OR, a bit more crude method - take your metric openend wrenches and try putting the open end over the sway bar itself until you find the size the slips over with little play (~ 19mm probably).


2/ I will be doing the Turbo tie rods. Does the kit include new tie rod ends, or is this an additional item?

** Most kits include the tie-rod ends as well as the rods, bellows and spacers. As already mentioned, spend the extra few $$ on the Lemforder kit.

3/ I have Boges struts. I will probably replace the struts, since they are 35 years old. Any suggestions? I was looking at Bilstein Sports and HDs, but I'm open to anything.

** You may want to match your struts to your t-bar size and your intended use for the car. I'm running 22mm front T-bars on a 2410 lb car and am happy with the HDs rather than the Sports. Others will chime here.

4/ Wheel bearings are cheap, and I don't mind spending the money. However, my look perfect, and the packing was amazingly intact - should I replace them?

** As already posted, at least clean and repack. Once you clean them, then inspect them closely without all of the old grease packed in there to be sure the bearing cage is intact and not bent and the bearings or the race isn't discolored from heat. If all is well, repack and go. I like to use Valvoline synthetic wheel bearing grease here.

5/ I've already got 1 off, but is there an easy way to get the wheel hub end cap off with scratching the hub itself?

** No. But, I had a thin nut welded on my caps (like the turbo cap) so that I can use a small slide-hammer to get them off rather than channel locks or hammer and punch. Just a thought

6/ Is a tie rod end puller pretty useful? What about the tie rod installation wrench?

** Get a good tie-rod fork (probably about $8 - $12 at Sears) and a BFH and call it day. I have no experience with a tie-rod installation wrench

7/ Is the Rennline strut bar good, or is there a better value?

**No experince here either. FWIW, I've been happy with the Elephant Racing triangulated strut bar.

8/ How much will I regret not going to bigger s-bars and t-bars? If I change, what is the recommendation? I will use the car for street driving, with some autox and and fairly infrequent lapping (DE).

** If you think you are going to do it, do it now. Ther are lots of threads on this and, there will be several opinions on sizing these. It seem that a rule of thumb is a 5mm difference front to rear with the rears larger.

What about control arm bushings? Might be worth looking at. Also, inspect the lower ball joints for wear also (with the tire just off the ground, put a long bar under the tire and have a helper lift up - watch and see if there is any play in the b-joint before the control arm moves. If so, you might want to replace them as well. At that point, you might as well remove the entire control arm, clean/paint, replace any needed bits (bushings, ball joints, etc). Might be over kill but, at least you will know what is in there and it won't let you down when you are someplace you least expect it.



9/ Finally, the seals on my brake calipers look a little old and tired. This seems like an important repair - I'm a little intimidated by the caliper rebuild in 101 Projects. Is it hard? I have M calipers. Should I just get new struts too? I am trying to avoid this because I beleive maintained M calipers will do just fine for my application.


I have received so much inspiration from P-heads. I appreciate the empowerment to tackle stuff I never would have dreamed of trying before.

** You will be amazed at what you can do, Alex. Take your time, study the project BEFORE diving in and have fun!!
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Last edited by ozz; 10-17-2005 at 12:46 PM..
Old 10-17-2005, 12:41 PM
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Re: Re: Yet Another Winter Suspension Project.. advice needed

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ozz
Quote:
Originally posted by naparsei
I have a couple of questions:
1/ How do I know the size of my front sway bar?

** Look at the end of the sway bar where it slides thru the bushing on the control arm and take your metric scale and measure. OR, a bit more crude method - take your metric openend wrenches and try putting the open end over the sway bar itself until you find the size the slips over with little play (~ 19mm probably).
Oddly enough, I can fit an 18mm openend wrench over the sway bar, despite the fact that I'm certain the setup is factory. I am assuming this is a 19mm bar, since a 17mm won't fit, so it's probably not a 16mm. Any thoughts?
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Old 10-17-2005, 07:46 PM
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Kroggers - I ordered my stuff - $1500

Ozz - Thanks, and sweet IROC - I love that look, and if I ever do another project, I want to do a IROC car clone of the series (Strawberry Pink, I think!) - but keep the original duck on the widebody, vs. the tail you have (which looks great too, IMO) which they used in the series. Great video!
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:22 PM
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I did a suspension rebuild about five months ago and am very glad that I tackled this job myself. You won't regret it.

I would highly recommend replacing your ball joints. As for a strut brace, I installed a Rennline and am pleased with it. It looks great too.

Here's a link to my project:
The suspension rebuild begins tomorrow

Feel free to PM me with questions you might have. I may be able to help a little.
Old 10-17-2005, 08:34 PM
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Naparsei, could you post or PM me the list of parts that you ordered, would be nice to compare to my list before I make the order??
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:27 PM
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Alex - thanks for the comments.

One other point that I didn't mention. Its a little off-topic and maybe obvious (although I neglected to keep it in mind) and that is - don't let your project become overwhelimng and end up being "a job". I got to that point last winter where it became real work to go out into a cold garage, start up the heaters, and try to get a couple of hours of work in on the car. It gets frustrating and becomes no fun at that point. And, you probably don't do as good of work as you would otherwise. I think Milt (Zeke) posted similar experinces earlier this year as well regarding project burn-out. Just my $.02
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Old 10-18-2005, 08:56 AM
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Hi Gary, I am about to undertake the same project this winter, and was thinking about just that issue. I was going to post a question closer to the start of the project, to ask if what approach I should take out of the following 2:

1- Attack the complete job as one and basically remove the complete front assembly to work on, or,
2.- Tackle it one job at a time.

What would you recommend, and if doing it one job at a time, what order should I do it in??

Thank you!!
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come and follow the Porsche Sports Cup racing fun and me at www.facebook.com/coolcavaracing
Old 10-18-2005, 09:56 AM
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Paul,

I think it varies on the project and the person but for me, I was rebuilding the entire front end - ball joints, bushings, tie-rods, t-bars, bearings, brakes, etc,etc,.... you get the picture. For me, it was easier to completely disassemble, clean, paint/powder coat what I could and then reassemble in the proper order with all the new parts. In my mind, I could segment that (front end rebuild) and it was a manageable job. Its when you add the front-end rebuild to adding bodywork, plumbing and fitting a front oil cooler, gutting and redoing the interior, fitting a roll cage, rewire electrical and relocate battery so on and so forth to the winter's list - that's when it all adds up and becomes overwhelming, segmented or not. Even if its done segment at a time (which I tried to do).

What I learned - study the project ahead of time. Look at your manuals and the tech articles on this board so that you at least sort of understand how it all works. I went so far as to make a list of what I needed to do and it what order. That saved me a lot of back tracking later and helped in the reassembly as well. And, expect things to take longer than you think and alot plenty of time. IMHO doing the entire front end at once is manageable and for that matter, if you are replacing many of the components anyway, easier to do all at once.
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Old 10-18-2005, 12:04 PM
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Thank you ozz. My project is to do the entire front end, with replacing most of the older parts - as discussed in my other thread (Please help me with my shopping list and spend some money), so I will take your view and remove it all in one go!! You say you created a list - do you still have that, would it be possible to see it?? Would maybe help a beginner like me to keep to the correct track

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Old 10-18-2005, 12:21 PM
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