Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Used Up User
 
imcarthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,292
Garage
Valve Adjusting - Is this TDC?

This all started as a pre-winter oil change & well, I had the parts on hand & . . . then, I only had 4 shims installed, so the fan wouldn't turn the crank & this meant a wait until Monday until Porsche parts opened . . . the usual story . . .

Anyway . . . is this TDC? Reason for my question is that I can't get the feeler blade (Pelican Porsche tool) in. I fought for 1/2 hour trying to do cyl 1 lower valve. Ditto upper valve. Ruined a blade (I have 3 extras). Before I jump in & loosen it, I just figured I'd check.




And I know I need a new rotor & a distributor cap & the fan is disgusting etc etc.

Ian
__________________
'87 Carrera Cab

----- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” A. Einstein -----
Old 10-25-2005, 08:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
KobaltBlau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: City of Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,374
I don't see two notches on your fan pulley, there are two at #1 TDC, one of which is marked Z1 which is the one you need to be at. The rotor can point the direction pictured at 2 different points, and one is not #1 TDC.

Do you have the bentley manual? It does a good job of covering the procedure.

I must say that I couldn't get my feeler gauge under any of my valves after 18k miles. they all still had a little clearance, but the .004 wasn't happening. YMMV, for sure. I've heard many people say you shouldn't have to loosen them first. I should also say that I needed like 6 blades for my first valve adjustment.
__________________
Andy
Old 10-25-2005, 08:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Somatic Negative Optimist
 
Gunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winlaw, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,207
Garage
You can turn the engine by squeezing the fan belt together while at the same time using a 23mm socket on the fan pulley nut. Easier with the plugs out.
The notch on the distributor housing looks about right. If your pulley is lined up with the Z1 mark, the #1 cyl. should be at TDC.
Try to wiggle the rocker arms; you should be able to feel the gap/play.
The "Elephant foot" stays on top of the valve stem due to suction from the oil; you need to break that suction.
I find it easiest to back off the adjusting screw, insert the feeler blade, snug up the adjusting screw, tighten the nut and check how the blade slides.
Get a Bentley manual; you'll love it.
__________________
1980 Carrerarized SC with SS 3.2, LSD & Extras. SOLD!
1995 seafoam-green 993 C2, LSD, Sport seats.
Abstract Darwin Ipso Facto: "Life is evolutionary random and has no meaning as evidenced by 7 Billion paranoid talking monkeys with super-inflated egos and matching vanity worshipping illusionary Gods and Saviors ".
Old 10-25-2005, 09:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SLC, Utah
Posts: 143
There should be two notches at #1 TDC as Andy states. The first notch you come to is for timing, the second notch about an inch to the left of the first notch is TDC. I don't believe there is a Z1 marking to designate TDC on your 3.2 - there is not one on my '86, just a notch. Your rotor should be pointing at the ingnition wire going to the #1 cylinder.

I did my first adjustment about a month ago. I recommend you start with the #4 cylinder. That way, you can see the exhaust valves very easily and can get the "feel" of the adjustment. Then turn the engine 240 degrees and you can do the #5 cylinder, then turn 240 degrees again and do the #6 (that way you stay on the passenger side of the engine and do the entire bank). Next find TDC for #1 and do the same process staying on the drivers side. When finished, go through them all again. FYI - 2 exhaust and 2 intakes were the only ones that needed a bit of adjustment for me, they were a bit loose.

Good luck!
__________________
Regards,

Jim
'86 Carrera Coupe

Last edited by jet911; 10-25-2005 at 09:31 AM..
Old 10-25-2005, 09:29 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Somatic Negative Optimist
 
Gunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winlaw, BC, Canada
Posts: 7,207
Garage
So, the 3.2's don't have a Z1 mark? If there is about one inch between the first and second notch on the Carrera-pulley, what is the timing set to?
On the 3.0 SC, it is 5deg BTDC and the notches are only ~1/4 inch apart
__________________
1980 Carrerarized SC with SS 3.2, LSD & Extras. SOLD!
1995 seafoam-green 993 C2, LSD, Sport seats.
Abstract Darwin Ipso Facto: "Life is evolutionary random and has no meaning as evidenced by 7 Billion paranoid talking monkeys with super-inflated egos and matching vanity worshipping illusionary Gods and Saviors ".
Old 10-25-2005, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Used Up User
 
imcarthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,292
Garage
Thanks guys. No. There's is no Z1 marking - or at least it is impossible to see it.



But this puts the rotor 180 away from the distributor notch & valve #1 doesn't budge with the wiggle test. #2 wiggled though.



Ian

btw I have the Bentley & Wayne's book & the Tech article & misc posts . . .
__________________
'87 Carrera Cab

----- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” A. Einstein -----
Old 10-25-2005, 09:57 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
SC-targa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Winter Garden, Florida
Posts: 882
Rotate the crank 360 degrees and you're at TDC on compression, not exhaust.

Regards,

Jerry
__________________
82 911SC targa
05 Boxster S
87 Suzuki GSXR-1100
1939 Ford Convertible Coupe
Old 10-25-2005, 10:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SLC, Utah
Posts: 143
Doc, as shown in the pic above, the first notch (the one to the right) is for timing (at least that is my understanding). It may also be less than an inch, I was just guessing.

Ian - as you sit now, you should be at the #4 cylinder, turn the crank 360 degrees and you should be at #1.
__________________
Regards,

Jim
'86 Carrera Coupe
Old 10-25-2005, 10:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Used Up User
 
imcarthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,292
Garage
Now, I've got it. Thanks all. Now I just need midget hands & my eyesight back to do it.

Ian
__________________
'87 Carrera Cab

----- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” A. Einstein -----
Old 10-25-2005, 11:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 79
I adjusted the valves on my 930 for the first time this summer. One of the things I learned (from hours of failure and many well-chosen words) was that it is almost impossible to insert the valve adjustment tool in the gap between the rocker arm and the valve from the outside of the rocker arm. However, if you insert the tool from the inside of the rocker arm (that is, away from the outside of the valve cover), the blade will easily go between the gap (if the valve isn't too tight). Practice, practice, practice.

Also, be sure to press down on the opposite side of the rocker arm before using the valve adjustment tool to ensure that the gap is open. The rocker arm sometimes sticks to the valve due to flatness of the metal and the oil's surface tension.

Doug
__________________
'79 911 Turbo

"My destiny's ta' get the hell outa here."
Henry Fonda - My Name is Nobody
Old 10-25-2005, 12:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Posts: 1,326
Gentlemen,
These are pic's of my '85 Carrera at TDC, number one. Notice the timing marks and the rotor position. Same as everyone else.
__________________
DOUG
'76 911S 2.7, webers, solex cams, JE pistons, '74 exhaust, 23 & 28 torsion bars, 930 calipers & rotors, Hoosiers on 8's & 9's.
'85 911 Carrera, stock, just painted, Orient Red
Old 10-25-2005, 02:50 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Posts: 1,326
Gentlemen, Part 2,
There must be something wrong with me. I'm always looking for the easy way out.
I own two 911's, a '76 and a '85. I've adjusted valves on both cars once a year for over five years.
I have never inserted a 0.004" feeler gauge between the elephant foot and stem.
I found it so much simpler to use a 0.003" feeler between the cam and rocker. I set it slightly tight, snug, whatever. I recheck with a 0.002" feeler and a 0.004" feeler.
I have done this with the engine in and out of the cars.
I have rechecked with a nice 0.025" dial indicator. Works well for me.
I can recheck my adjustment by simply sliding whatever feeler back into the gap.
I don't suffer from not being able to fit between the foot and stem after an adjustment.
No big mystery here.
The dimension works out to be 0.00285" for all you super precision guys.
__________________
DOUG
'76 911S 2.7, webers, solex cams, JE pistons, '74 exhaust, 23 & 28 torsion bars, 930 calipers & rotors, Hoosiers on 8's & 9's.
'85 911 Carrera, stock, just painted, Orient Red
Old 10-25-2005, 03:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,074
Garage
The timing mark is for reference only since the DME system of the 3.2 use the flywheel position sensors to know what position the crank is at before fireing the spark plugs at the appropriate cylinder. The distributor doesn't permit timing adjustments like in earlier series cars.
Old 10-25-2005, 03:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Used Up User
 
imcarthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,292
Garage
Doug

Thanks for the pics. That is what I have now for TDC (but only after everybody's sage advice).

Now I'm off to attempt it . . .

Thanks all

Ian
__________________
'87 Carrera Cab

----- “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” A. Einstein -----
Old 10-25-2005, 04:02 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,202
On my '88 when the rotor is dead center on the notch in the housing the crank notch is about 1/2" right past the mark on my fan housing. The car runs perfectly but does this mean my timing is off or something else is wrong? I'm going to have to remove the distributor to get the cam oil line off and want to make sure I get it back together properly.
__________________
Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold '07 A4 sold, '14 C250 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 09-04-2017, 01:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
83 911 Production Cab #10
 
JJ 911SC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 10,642
Garage
Should have started a new thread as this one is 12 old but most of the posters still around
__________________
Who Will Live... Will See

83 911 Production Cab #10, Slightly Modified: Unslanted, 3.2, PMO EFI, TECgt, CE 911 CAM Sync / Pulley / Wires, SSI, Dansk Sport 2/2, 17" Euromeister, CKO GT3 Seats, Going SOK Super Charger
Old 09-04-2017, 01:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: St Paul MN
Posts: 2,541
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88911coupe View Post
On my '88 when the rotor is dead center on the notch in the housing the crank notch is about 1/2" right past the mark on my fan housing. The car runs perfectly but does this mean my timing is off or something else is wrong? I'm going to have to remove the distributor to get the cam oil line off and want to make sure I get it back together properly.
Most cars don't have timing right at top dead center, so your car is probably timed just right.

At this point, you can remove the distributor, just don't turn the motor over- I tape over my ignition so I don't accidentally try and start it.

Pull the distributor and when you put it back in, line the rotor up just like it was when you removed. You'll want to double check your timing after it is re-installed.
__________________
Rutager West

1977 911S Targa Chocolate Brown
Old 09-04-2017, 02:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Dallas
Posts: 3,202
Thanks, Just don't want to create a huge problem while trying to solve a simply annoying problem (cam line leak). In reading other threads the fact that the gears are slanted makes is slightly tricky to get it in the right tooth when I put it back it.
__________________
Buck
'88 Coupe, '87 Cab,
'88 535i sold '07 A4 sold, '14 C250 DD
Warren Hall, gone but not forgotten
Old 09-04-2017, 02:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
Rawknees'Turbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: North TexASS
Posts: 10,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by 88911coupe View Post
Thanks, Just don't want to create a huge problem while trying to solve a simply annoying problem (cam line leak). In reading other threads the fact that the gears are slanted makes is slightly tricky to get it in the right tooth when I put it back it.
Buck, putting it back in is the easy part (the slanted gear does not cause a problem at all) - removing it is more difficult as it will really be stuck in the bore (held pretty tight by the thick o-ring seal) . . . will take a fair amount of force to initially lift it.

You can very accurately preserve your current timing by drawing a circle (or a half circle, or hash mark) around the locking nut with a Sharpie, then when you reinstall the distributor, position the nut/distributor so that it is back in your drawn circle.

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 09-04-2017 at 02:57 PM..
Old 09-04-2017, 02:53 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:01 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.