getting my nut off

[Driver Ed]

I'm attempting to replace the starter motor in my '82 911 SC and I'd have been done hours ago except for one thing -- the top nut holding the starter motor in place. I wasn't able to budge the @#$%! thing, so I put a pipe around a breaker bar for extra leverage and worked at it until it finally turned. Unfortunately, it seems that the 10mm allen wrench just spun in place so now I fear I'm REALLY stuck -- it appears that rather than breaking loose, it just deformed so that now I can't get the allen wrench to get a grip.

Now what? Do I need to drop the engine just to hacksaw this stupid nut off? Access is a problem, since this is the top nut and not the bottom one. Any useful help would be very much appreciated.

Ed

[North Coast Cab]

Most people replace that nut when they drop their engine so they don't have the tpe of probelsm you did. I would say you should at least try a partial engine drop to get a better shot at it and then drop all the way if you can't get it.

John

[JonT]

Can you get a Dremel in there to cut the nut off? This has saved me many times.

[poorsha]

For a moment there I thought you said "getting my nuts off".
I was going to point you to another user group

[Rick V]

Try the old stand-by.
Go to sears and purchase a set of outside extractors.
This should do the trick.
Good luck

[VaSteve]

What Rick V said. He beat me to it.

Buy the whole set, thereby ensuring you'll never use them again.

[Driver Ed]

I've heard of extractors (for bolts) and nut splitters (for nuts, of course) but not something called an outside extractor. Is that the same as a nut splitter or something different?

Also, here's a picture of the less stubborn nut:

Since it's kind of deep, I wasn't sure that a nut splitter would work that well on this.

As for a Dremel tool, excellent idea, but it's just too tight. Even if I do a partial engine drop, I doubt I'd have enough room to actually see the thing, so I'd have to do it blind or with a mirror, and as much of a pain as the nut is, damaging that stud would REALLY make my life difficult.

So far, my inclination is to do the partial engine drop and then get a really good grip with an allen wrench. I'll also be better able to beat on it with a hammer which may also help.

[munro86]

Must have been painful.

[Flipseat]

Internal or external extractors would work... either one depending on clearance and what you have. You could either tap an extractor into the hex head, or tap an extractor around the outside of the nut. I have both sets from Matco and they work excellent! I once had a seized lug bolt on a Mercedes (the long ones) and I tapped on an extractor (around the lug bolt - the extractor had internal splines) and it actually snapped the bolt into 3 pieces. The last piece brought out the chunk with the threads beautifully. They're very strong!


Internal splines on extractors (what I used on the Mercedes)


External splines on extractors

[Rick V]

Yeah what Flip said.
I have the exact same sets they are worth thier weight in removed hardware! If you spend any time working on audi's you need those kids

[Early_S_Man]

Guys,

I don't believe there is enough clearance for external collet-type extractor ... due to the close proximity of the starter body. The upper barrel nut is actually turned down a bit ... a different pn than the lower standard barrel nut, which is a standard cylinder head nut!

I believe the only recourse is to do a partial or full engine/trans drop and use a ViseGrip pliers removal technique, long and tedious at about 45° turn per ...

[john walker's workshop]

is the allen wrench rounded or is the nut rounded? regular allen wrenches tend not to be hardened. try a 3/8 drive allen socket tapped all the way into the nut with a hammer. use a 3/8 ratchet across the top of the trans, which should get you a couple of clicks to work with. push up against the floor.

[Driver Ed]

It's the nut that's rounded, I believe. Because the nut is so close to the starter motor body, my regular 3/8 drive allen socket doesn't fit in there very well -- it's a little off angle (which I think is what got me into this mess) so I bought one that's got a little longer allen part yesterday. (about 1/2" vs. 3/4") Pounding it in with a hammer is a good idea -- I might just try that when I get back to it. It's sure easier than doing a partial engine drop.

Thanks also for the lessons about extractors. I learn stuff all the time here. Sometimes not even the hard way!

Ed

[1972_911T]

Do you have a mig welder sometimes its worth sacrificeing an allen socket and mig welding it to the allen nut to aid removal the heat from the mig also helps losen up the nut, I used this trick on my heat exchanger barrel nuts.

[Early_S_Man]

Ed,

For the second 'run' at this problem ... I suggest a thorough cleaning with Q-tips and Brakleen, several times applied to the nut interior.

Then, get some valve grinding compound [use the coarse grade] and apply plenty to the new Allen drive bit ... all over the nose and flats before inserting into the problem barrel nut! Use a 9" or 12" extension on the Allen drive bit to be sure of the angle and that you are lined up properly parallel to the axis of the stud before hammering with brass or copper-faced mallet.

Don't attempt to apply torque until you are certain the Allen drive bit is seated as far as possible into the nut! It is helpful to have another pair of eyes watching for any potential problem! Watching from outside the front of the driver's side wheel well, down low, an assistant will have a better view of the top of the starter mounting area ... long, skinny arms are helpful when working on top of that 915!

[randywebb]

valve grinding compound [use the coarse grade]

- in case anybody is wondering.... this creates a lot of friction or bite for the bit in the socket -- no need to buy any of the magic elixers that are sold for this use.

also, there is an implication above that an Allen wrench is being used - I think an Allen drive bit on a rachet might work better. For one thing, you can hammer it deep into the socket.

good luck

[Driver Ed]

Well I'm finally back in town and I tried and tried this weekend, but I'm giving up. I just can't move that damn nut. I guess I'll be calling a tow truck.

Although I was not successful, I'd still like to express my sincere thanks for all who offered advice.

Ed

[safe]

How about to hammer in a torx bit?