993 conversion - ECU drive block reprogram - what are the latest options?
 

I'm contemplating a 993 engine conversion and trying to nail down my own budget (minimizing costs along the way). Is there any new information here OR are Patrick MS and Timmons the only options?
I have an email out to Steve Wong to see if he's offering this service.

Also, do I need to run a chip with a Euro brain?

Thanks a bunch!

Doug

Todd Knighton of Protomotive re-programs the Motronic ECU's for all models of the 911/964/993/996 etc...

Merv,
Any idea of price? Thanks for the tip!

Doug

Do you have the engine already? If not, get a '95 or a 96+ euro vram, they dont have it.

I do not have the engine. Can I just use an earlier ECU? This engine is a 97 v-ram. I guess maybe I don't understand what the drive block is....Please help me understand.

Thanks for your reply!

Doug

Doug:

Drive Block is the Porsche moniker for the Immobilizer. This is part of the car's alarm that prevents the car from being started-stolen.

Unless the engine you buy doesn't have that feature (some '95's do not; all USA Varioram ones do), you'll need to have someone disable that in software so the engine will start.

FWIW, I can disable the Drive Block as well. :)

Steve,
Thanks for the clarification! I assume since we are talking about changes in software (do you have to re-burn firmware) that the process is something you can estimate the cost for?

What is the difference between working on the ECU of a Euro version vs. USA version? Does that make a big difference?

Thank you,

Doug

Doug:

Yessir, the ECU's chip must be removed and reflashed with different software to disable the Immobilizer. We get $ 995 for that as its the same amount of work as the performance programming.

Differences between US and Euro ECU's depend on the year. Most of the differences lie in software such as OBD-II parameters.

Steve,
Thanks for clarifying! If I start with a 96 Euro V-ram, does $995 include remapping of fuel and ignition curves, as well as disabling the drive block?

OR is it necessary to disable the drive block?
The ECU must be reflashed to change the fuel maps and ignition curves, too, right?

Thanks,

Doug

Doug:

My suggestion is to start with a '97 or '98 motor. There are major ECU differences between 96's and later ones that make these MUCH MUCH more difficult (expensive) to modify.

The $ 995 includes remapping services as well as disabling the Drive Block on these '97-'98 ECU's,....:)

If you don't disable the drive block, then you'll need the Immobilizer module, remote controller, and harness from the donor car to start the thing.

Yessir, anything you do to these ECU's requires reflashing the ECU.

Steve,
Thanks again for the advice! Will a 97 or 98 ECU control a 96 engine? Are the harnesses and sensors identical?

Hope I'm not encroaching on your generosity with all of these questions!

Doug

Yessir, a '97 or '98 ECU will work on any '96 engine provided that the Immobilizer is disabled,...:)

Everything else is identical.

Steve,
Thanks for clarifying - this is incredibly helpful information!
I've also learned that: OBDII and non-OBDII harnesses and therefore DMEs have different pin configurations, too. So the OBDII and non-OBDII DMEs are not interchangeable, either. Is that correct?

Finally, is the US market the only one using OBDII in '96 to '98? For example, would cars destined for other countries have had OBDII compliant brains?

Finally, I do have an OBDII tester for my other cars which is pretty helpful. If I did end up with a 97 to 98 ECU and had the driveblock disabled, as well as the fuel / spark cars remapped, would my tester actually work? Maybe there is some small value in that.

Again, your generosity in sharing informatoin is something I very much appreciate!

Doug

If you have a diagnostic port wired into the harness, your tester will work. I believe Patrick Motorsports' ad for their '96-'98 wiring harness adaptor insinuates that it includes a diagnostic port these days.

Rob,
That makes sense - your thread shed some additional light. Nice install!

Doug

Hi Doug:

OBD-I and OBD-II harnesses are different. The former uses a 55-pin ECU connector and the latter has an 88-pin ECU connector. That makes these ECU's non-interchangable.

The US market got ODB-II from '96-onward. The rest of the world gradually received the same thing.

If you have an OBD-II engine setup, its very simple to add the diagnostic port connector so you can use any generic OBD-II tool to read and reset any codes.

hallo
wouldnt it be cheaper and easier to change the Harness and ECU from OBD 2 to OBD 1 ?
harald

Harald,
Based on yours and Steve's comments, it seems like converting to the OBDi harness and computer is the way to go, if it can be done for less $$$. The engine and sensors are the same, seems like. Steve Wong told me something similar.

Doug

Personally, I'd rather have the OBD-II setup for its monitoring and diagnosis features.

I've found it to be quite useful,...:)

Steve - aren't there negatives to the OBD II??

I don't have a personal intest (being a carb-using knuckle-dragger myself), but from an academic standpoint, I'm interested...

Randy:

Not in terms of these conversions,...:)

MHO, of course.

Be aware that it's very risky modifying/flashing the Porsche 993 OBDII
cars, as they are very problematic when attempting an emission test
even without modifications. Check the Rennlist web site under 993 and
see all the posts about emission test failures on stock unmodified cars.

Check here ( www.systemsc.com/codes.htm ) under the section of readiness
codes to get more info.

I doubt that this applies to DW SD's car, his car is 71 I believe...thanks for info though.

"I doubt that this applies to DW SD's car, his car is 71 I believe...thanks for info though."

Wrong! Here in California, the emission requirements apply to the later engine and
NOT the year of the car's body. Unless the car is "track only", the last time I checked,
San Diego is still in California where the thread starter lives.

...and thanks for that info too! :D

...but I still think his car is smog exempt

...have fun! RideShoot&Drink

And how would the DMV know he doesnt have a '71 motor?

"And how would the DMV know he doesnt have a '71 motor?" - rattlsnak -

This isn't Georgia. Here the smog guys actually look at the engine and
check the manuals to verify emission elements on the engine and their
functionality per the emissions manual. These emission guys are closely
monitored by the state and get a huge fine and/or loss of their licenses
if they don't fully test & comply with the regulations.

I thought that if you put a newer motor in a smog required car, a la MikeZ's 83 RS cab w/ 3.6, then you have to still maintain the 3.6 emissions. However, DW SD has a 71 which is completely smog exempt in stock form, so they wouldn't be checking his motor anyway, I think. Jack has a 3.6 in his 72 w/ B&B headers (= no cats) and he doesn't seem to have a problem, and its not a dedicated track car.

I live in MA though, I could be way off base. Thats just what I picked up from this forum.

Can one hook up a port on an OBDI harness? What is needed and how is it done?

who would tell if you had the newer engine...I know I would not tell them, it's a 1974 as far as they need to know.

I do indeed have a '71 chassis. In fact, I bought someone else's project and the vehicle was un-registered for many years. Fortunately, once your vehicle qualifies for smog exempt status due to age (currently fixed at 1975 and earlier in CA), no check-ins with the authorities are required. If you choose to notify them of your "upgraded, newer engine" it would have to be smogged per the engine year's standards, like Loren stated. Some day, in the not to distant future, I've heard CA will have mobile smog stations visually scanning vehicles on the road looking for gross polluters. There is technology to identify certain gasses (maybe NOX) or high hydro carbons. I guess you will be able to be picked up by the mobile smog - police. I don't believe this is science fiction.

For those concerned about the ethics of a swap, I suspect a later, well-tuned, fuel injected engine without cats put out much less HC and NOx than an original, early carbureted 911T engine.

Thank you all for your input. I'm going to talk to Steve Weiner on Monday to ask his recommendation of target engine / DME for my application. I'm interested in a V-Ram motor upgrade. It is definitely confusing. He seemed to suggest to stay away from Euro motors and their DMEs, but also though OBDII has the drive-block challenge to work around, it seems preferable. I'll post some more information when I talk to him. Steve Wong explained that he can re-program (re-map) an OBDI or OBDII engine as long as the EPROM is removable. However, he cannot defeat drive block at the present time.

Doug

"Steve Wong explained that he can re-program (re-map) an OBDI or OBDII engine as long as the EPROM is removable."

The OBDII 993 cars, '96-'98, don't use EPROMs as did the '95s.
The '96 used a masked ROM and the later ones use flash memories.
Everyone who knows the Porsche DMEs should be aware of the memories
used by Porsche and the problematic issues with re-programming.

Some claim DME knowledge and make statements which are not accurate
about Porsche DMEs and thus mislead others.

Good to know! I have to admit, I belive I misquoted Steve. I thank you for clarifying. He was kind enough to share an hour's worth of information and I was going from memory. Different perspectives are very worthwhile.

Doug

I thought Cal had trailer-based sniffers now - parked at entrance ramps & etc. I heard they can ID individual vehicles...

But, just remember - you are putting in a _lower_ emissions engine than what the car had before...

It's kinda hard to believe, but my 85 Carrera (sold, but not forgotten) passed CA smog a year ago. The engine was just rebuilt with 964 cams, SSI's, sports muffler and on top of that with SteveW chip...Have Fun!

i have been told the varirams get better fuel milage by far than the 1995 obd-1 993 engines?
would one get as much power out of a 1995 993 engine with an aftermarket ecu that has optimal remapping than a varioram engine?
anyone...
antares