Front suspension a-arm bushings?-pics-

[JTL]

I started this project in search of a clunking type sound over bumps etc. that originated from the right front suspension. Prior to this I have gone as far as taking the hub off so everything past that is new to me.

So far I haven't found anything besides the obvious dirt and filth. The ball joints are ok as do the shock inserts and top mounts. There is no apparent rubbing marks on the stock 18mm t-bars.

Regarding the A-arms: should the arm normally rotate freely within the mounts? The bushings seems to be frozen to the metal parts -- I don't really know what to make of it. The rear bushing is no longer quite round anymore, pic#2.

I have considered installing the elephant a-arm bearings but don't want a totally harsh ride. The car is mostly street driven targa with 3-4 de's per year. So far the car has bilsteins and turbo tie rods. What should I do?

jt
-84 targa - 95k

[911s55]

Jt; Have you seen this?
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_suspension_bushings/911_suspension_bushings_front2.htm

[the]

Those are the stock rubber bushings, and no, you would not be able to rotate them by hand. They are a very tight fit.

I don't really know if those are bad or not, but I know I've seen lots in much worse condition.

I don't think the bushings are the source of your clunking noise, though.

[Evans, Marv]

If you've considered Elephant polybronze, go ahead & go for them instead of fooling around with other stuff that you probably won't be satisfied with later. Nobody has reported a harsh ride with them. You say you do a few DEs a year, and they will compliment your Bilsteins & turbo tie rods nicely. The cost more, but it's a one time cost.

[JTL]

Thanks for all the replies.

I think you are right Marv. I might as well go with the elephant pb bearings. I hear those are a pain the get lined up though. Do I need the low friction mounts too?

the: I agree. The bushings aren't in real bad shape but they are gettin' to be about 23 years old.

911s55: No I had not seen that article before. I did however read the elephant pb installation pdf, which also describes removing the old rubber bushings using heat.

Starting down this parts upgrade path is definitely like opening a can of worms though. Pretty soon I'm gonna need a sway bar and bigger t-bars or coil-overs even...

jt

[don911]

I have the same clunk on the right side. The suspension was just done with elephant bushing, ball joints, etc... The clunk was there before and after. I'm beginning to think it is the torsion bar adjuster knocking but I don't know. I've looked everwhere on the car for something loose but can find anything.

[the]

Originally posted by JTL


the: I agree. The bushings aren't in real bad shape but they are gettin' to be about 23 years old.

yeah, I'm not saying the bushings don't need to be replaced, but typically worn bushings cause squeaking, not clunking. Clunking seems like it would be something other than the bushings.

[911s55]

Jt; If your car is lower than stock, your "Clunk" could be from your steering rack and related parts. Install a bumpsteer kit if you haven't, and the "poly bronze" bushings fit nicely, it's the poly graphites that usually need to be machined in, thats why they're cheap.
Good luck, David

[Jeff Hail]

Originally posted by JTL
I started this project in search of a clunking type sound over bumps etc. that originated from the right front suspension. Prior to this I have gone as far as taking the hub off so everything past that is new to me.

So far I haven't found anything besides the obvious dirt and filth. The ball joints are ok as do the shock inserts and top mounts. There is no apparent rubbing marks on the stock 18mm t-bars.

Regarding the A-arms: should the arm normally rotate freely within the mounts? The bushings seems to be frozen to the metal parts -- I don't really know what to make of it. The rear bushing is no longer quite round anymore, pic#2.

I have considered installing the elephant a-arm bearings but don't want a totally harsh ride. The car is mostly street driven targa with 3-4 de's per year. So far the car has bilsteins and turbo tie rods. What should I do?

jt
-84 targa - 95k

Check spare tire is secure. Sounds dumb but have seen this many times. If not suspension check hood latch adjustment. Have also seen this that hood bounces on the latch if closed tension is not snug. Easy test push down on the front of the hood slowly and release presure. If you hear the striker knocking on the latch readjust that latch down. Will make noise when tub flex's over bumps. Also check upper strut bearings (unloaded) with veh raised. Get breaker bar under the front tire with vehicle raised and supported and pull up, if you see abnormal vertical with no suspension movement most likely worn ball joints or upper strut bushings/ bearings.

[sballard]

I had the clunking sound when I went over bumps too. It turned out to be the front swaybar bushings. Best way to diagnose this is to disconnect the droplinks and drive it around to see if the clunks disappear.

[JTL]

I don't see anything related to the a-arms causing this the clunck. The left outside swaybar bushing has very small cracks but nothing major. I was hoping to find something obvious. The hood or spare may very well be a little loose; I'll check them. The stock swaybar doesn't have droplink and isn't easily disconnected. You either have to remove it or the a-arm. It may be time to upgrade the bar too.
Is the Weltmeister throught body front bar pretty good? How hard is the install?

It's only money, right...

jt

[Evans, Marv]

I agree that I can't think of much in the front suspension that would cause a clunk without being really out of whack. The only place I've experienced a clunk in an old suspension was in the rear. When the old, rear rubber bushings flatten out on the top, the spring plate retaining plate hole bumps the torsion bar tube going over bumps & into driveways.

[lateapex911]

Just a comment on the Elephant PB bushings....I think that they actually ride as well as the stock rubber. THe rubber is bonded in there and it seems to me that they add to the springrate. The PBs on my car rotate by hand. I used the easy alignment bits. It seemed to me to be the right way to go.

[JTL]

Jack,
I was thinking the same. Installing the pb bearings should allow the a-arms to move more freely thus improving the ride.

Can I still use the stock a-arm mounts?

[lateapex911]

Yes, you can use the stock mounts in the front, IIRC. I talked to Chuck about this, and the issue is the alignment of the stock mounts must be coaxial and perfect, front to rear. Thats rare it seems. His optional mounts include adjustability to align the front and rear properly, and thats key in getting the benefits from the design, which doens't use rubber as a "fudge factor".

Even if they left the factory in perfect alignment, it's possible that has shifted over the years of hard use.

I decided that I could try it without, find they didn't fit correctly (odds were they wouldn't) then have to wait for the adjustable ones to be shipped. Ack!@ I decided to just spend the mney and get it right once and for all.

Heres a pic of the install. (I also took the opportunity to fool around with my powdercoat rig and clean things up a bit.)

[cbeers]

I just installed the Elephant products last night, piece of cake! I already have the rear spring plate bearings and I love them. I am really looking forward to this when I am done

I also opted for the ER mount for the rear of the Tbar, they work with the existing one as well, but like Jake, I just wanted things right the first time. When you stare at the pieces and some hardware, the price seems steep, but really, it's worth it to me for piece of mind etc.

I'll be posting pics and a narrative later on this week or next when I am done. It won't look as nice as Jake's though!

-Chris

[bob tilton]

Jake - did you powdercoat the strut housings and hat? If so, what is the color? Looks good!

[JTL]

Thank you very much for the feedback. I now have the front suspension completely off the car. The rubber bushings are in the trash so there is no going back I just have to get all the parts blasted and finished up. Is it worth removing the cross brace and steering rack for inspection etc?







Cheers, jt

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by bob tilton
Jake - did you powdercoat the strut housings and hat? If so, what is the color? Looks good!

Thanks! I took the old parts (rear Koni shocks) and compared them to a powder coat color chart from my chosen supplier. I had all parts blasted, then went to town. I did the struts in the closest match (Similar to Chevy engine block orange) and the rest in semi gloss black.

Here's a shot showing the old, original rar shocks next to the new powdercoated struts...pretty close, maybe a little less 'faded".

[bob tilton]

DOPEALICIOUS! Thanks for posting the old against new pic. That would have been my next request.