72 911 T or E

[rphillips]

I have had the car for almost 2 years and it is in great shape and runs awesome, I was getting ready to put emblems on the car and noticed that the engine number and vin number do not match up. The chassis or vin number is 911 211 0753 and the engine number is 6200439. So from what I can tell, the body is that of a 72 911 T Targa. The engine on the other hand must be a 70 E. There is more to ad to this, I have some of the old owners paperwork on the car and his Bruce Anderson book, in which he has several 72 engine specs highlighted. I was also told the engine had been rebuilt at one point so I have no way of really telling what I have, other than it is MFI. Is it possible that he put a rebuilt 70 2.2 engine built to 72 2.4 specs? I was also told that he raced the car in PCA events, in fact I have a helmet painted to match the car. Back to my original thought, which emblems should go on the rear deck lid 911T, 911E, 2.4, or 2.2? In all honesty it probably doesn't matter at all, nothing on the car is original, it's just a fun driver. Now I am curious about the transmission, I better check the numbers on it.

[rattlsnak]

a T model does not mean Targa. Thtas should be easy enough to tell, does it have a Targa roof? Can you post a picture? In 72, you could get a T model with the E engine. E is for fuel injection, as the Ts had carbs.

[rphillips]

Yes it is a targa. The T is for "Touring" from the research that I have done. The vin numbers break down as follows:
911 = model type
4th digit 2 = last digit of model year
5th 1 = indicates type (1=T,2=E, 3=S)
6th 1 = indicates body style (0=coupe, 1=targa)
last 4 are sequential build numbers

and The Engine numbers are broken down as follows:
1st digit 6 number of cylinders
2nd 1 indicates type, 2= E
3rd 1 last digit of year =1970
last 4 are sequential serial numbers

[rphillips]

Here's a photo attempt...

[Evans, Marv]

Maybe you don't need to put anything on the deck lid. I doubt many people would notice there wasn't anything there.

[MikeSid]

Originally posted by rattlsnak
In 72, you could get a T model with the E engine. E is for fuel injection, as the Ts had carbs.

The E and T engines are different. All US models in 72/73 had an injection system. In the UK you could get a 72/73 T with carbs, but in the US it was MFI until 73.5 went to CIS.

Apart from the intake, the cams are different, and the crank was counterweighted in the Es but not the Ts. I believe there is difference in compression also, because of the piston dome height/shape. But in any event, the difference is more than just the fuel delivery system.

Based on the VINs and picture you posted, it looks like you have 72t shell with a few updates (H4 body painted rings, blackened door handles, body colored flag mirror) and an E case. With a car with that many changes, it's impossible to tell what's inside that case...although, based on the MFI pump numbers, and MFI guru might be able to tell you something about the what's in that case.

But...in answer to your main question...I think the VIN dictates what badging goes on the car.

What color is the engine shroud? Yellow or Green?

[coldstart]

Nice targa. I don't think it makes a big deal which badge you put on the decklild as long as it isn't '911S'. If you have a 911E engine and you want '911E' badging-- go for it. However under the strict interpretation, badging is according to the chasis.

Enjoy!

[rattlsnak]

Mike, were the 70/71 Ts injected also? I thought all Ts were carb, even the US models. I guess all the ones ive seen have been converted. I know the earlier ones were different with some having Zenith and some having Webers. My 72 was a T model according to vin, but came with an E engine, and all of the S options, like swaybars, chrome bumper caps etc. (have certification paperwork from Porsche). There was some interesting history on it also because it also came with the 100 liter platic gas tank and a few other things.

[Doug&Julie]

70 and 71 Ts were carb'd. My car is a 1970, but somebody replaced the motor with a '72T motor, but put the Zenith carbs back on! (Man I wish I knew why they did that! ..although it does run well). To further confuse things, they also brought over the 915 with it...

[MikeSid]

The Ts in 70 and 71 came with either weber or zenith carbs. During those years the E and S had MFI. In 72 all US cars came with MFI. Mid 73 the T got CIS while the E and S remained MFI.

I have a 2.2E engine with weber carbs in a 69T chassis. While I really like the MFI system, I think I lot of carb conversions took place because of the lack of talented MFI technicians. Everbody understands carbs. MFI can be a freakin mystery....even to experts.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally posted by MikeSid
While I really like the MFI system, I think I lot of carb conversions took place because of the lack of talented MFI technicians. Everbody understands carbs. MFI can be a freakin mystery....even to experts.

That's a good point. To be fair, with the exception of one particular summer (after a proper spring tune on my '72T), the carb'd car has run better than any of my MFI cars have ever run.

[rphillips]

The engine shroud is green. MikeSid, you hit the nail on the head, it's a heavily modified 72T shell. The interior is no exception. The rear bumper is a mod too, they made it look like a 74, kind of. It is really solid though, runs great, and it's fun to drive. I'll try to post more pics, that is the only one I had with me at work. Right now it needs a new targa skin and a pair of hard to find original replacement batteries. I might just upgrade it to a gel cell Optima and weight the other side.

[zotman72]

Cranks on the '72 engines are all the same.

[Doug&Julie]

Originally posted by rphillips
...Right now it needs a new targa skin and a pair of hard to find original replacement batteries.

I think I've got a pair laying around from my '72. If I remember correctly, I bought them new, had them charged, and only used them a few times, then put them up on a shelf. I'd be interested in selling if you'd like them.

[MikeSid]

Originally posted by zotman72
Cranks on the '72 engines are all the same.

Your right Bill, even the T cranks had counterweights in 72-73. It was only the prior years that the T crank was not counterweighted.

[MikeSid]

Originally posted by rphillips
Right now it needs ... a pair of hard to find original replacement batteries.

The Interstate 911U battery is direct replacement for the smaller two battery system and should be pretty easy to find.

[rphillips]

I have been to the local Interstate Battery three times and they haven't found me a suitable replacement. I just called them with that model number and the woman said that they can't get the 911U any more. No one is making them anymore. This time she reccomended a BSL-1146 which is physically smaller than the 911U, but might work. I might run out and take a look at them this evening. Although I wonder why she didn't tell me about that battery when I was in there with the actual porsche batteries for comparison.

Doug&Julie - How long have yours been sitting? The batteries I pulled out of my 911 were only a little over two years old and dead as a doornail.

[Doug&Julie]

Have you tried charging them? I mean, if they sit and lose charge, they should be able to charge up unless they're really old batteries. But newer batteries (i.e. barely used ones) will should charged.

To answer your question, mine have been sitting for a couple of years also. But they should have plenty of life left in them. But that would be a good thing to check...

[rphillips]

Yeah they told me that once they get so low there is no bringing them back. I might have a grounding problem which caused the drain. I need to do a little more investigating. I even tried trickle charging them overnight. Porsche wanted $452.90 for a pair of new ones, which I thought was just too pricey for lead acid batteries. There is a German company that makes gel cell, exact duplicates, I think they are called Sonnenshein or something like that. I read somewhere that Batteries Plus can order them, along with some place in Ft Lauderdale, FL. I bet they are up there in price as well.

®

[rphillips]

more pics...