welding on a non-sunroof clip... anyome done it and how hard is it? or how much $$?

Erik Mckenna · 01-11-2006, 02:13 PM

I have the lead on a early non-sunroof clip cup at the pillars... I am wanting to cut the top off the SC and weld this noin-sunroof clip on. I have head it's been done and all.. but was looking for some inside info on it from those who have domne it or who know anyone who has.. like what kind os cost am I looking at. and all.. and does anyone have pictures of a car that has had it done..
-Eric

DW SD · 01-11-2006, 02:57 PM

Additionally, a good question would be how much would it be to convert roof to CF, as well. A friend just did it, don't know how much it costs, but it may result in some nice weight savings. I know his budget is not unlimited.
Good luck,

Doug

Don Plumley · Don Plumley's Garage

The difference is with a CF roof, you'd want a full cage.

One approach with a CF roof (i.e. to remove a sunroof), you are typically cutting the roof center out, but not the sides/pillars. I've seen Fglass kits that involve the pillars, and then you would require a cage and unlike a clip, and I'd worry about fitment issues with the glass.

In both cases, working with a shop that has done it before would be essential.

Erik Mckenna · 01-11-2006, 03:17 PM

sohas anyone done this at the pillars or do you simply take the roof sheet metal and weld it on.?

john walker's workshop · 01-11-2006, 03:47 PM

just fill the hole and remove the inner pocket. if you cut the pillars, the car is severely weakened.

Zeke · 01-11-2006, 04:46 PM

I think JW is right, but the work to weld in a patch in the center of a roof and keep everything staright is real tough. I removed a hand dent in a roof and by the time I got done, I was block sanding a 2 foot square area. You see everything in a roof. Every ripple.

Vipergrün · 01-11-2006, 05:29 PM

Kevin (kevinp73) did this conversion to my former SC. You should contact him with details. Evidently, there are a few welds, and if done right it's pretty straight forward....

Erik Mckenna · 01-11-2006, 05:35 PM

which is better.... welding the stock sunroof back in or is it a good idea to take a dete sunroof panal and cut it to fit the hole?

Thanks guys..
_eric

john walker's workshop · 01-11-2006, 06:13 PM

find an old 911 and cut a larger than sunroof section from the roof. then you can trim to fit the hole nicely and butt weld the circumference. better than trying to fill an 1/8" gap. you would certainly be using some filler and blocking out the entire roof, but still better than cutting through the posts. you can't get to the inner A pillar metal to reweld for original strength. just the outside. flexy body, future cracks, roof rips off in an accident, etc.
kevin unfolded the driprail seams and replaced the top panel only. no post cutting. if you think you're up to that.....

Erik Mckenna · 01-11-2006, 06:39 PM

no.. not up to that/ but I will go with the larger cut on the early car.
Thanks Guys!

Britwrench · 01-11-2006, 07:25 PM

If you are doing this for a track car, it's the ideal time to weld in the roll cage. Car should be on a (Cellete) jig. It's been done before, I saw a roof changed at the Porsche service shop in Germany. They had cut the pillars to do it.

Erik Mckenna · 01-12-2006, 05:21 AM

Yeah, it's a 80% track car in build ( when it's done) but I will continue to drive it everyday as I have.
but yeah it has a full cage in it.. I think I'll just replace the skin..
Thanks guys!

304065 · 01-12-2006, 06:23 AM

Why don't you get one of those fiberglass panels for the roof? Lighter and easier to work with than steel. I am CERTAIN that your skull is thick enough . . .

Erik Mckenna · 01-12-2006, 06:37 AM

John,, What the hell does that comment mean!?

haha!
No, really I would but I really do not want to have exterior traces of the sunrrof.
I have a vision of the car in my head and I want to stick with it.
not compromise now. yesh it'll be more work and cost more but it's what i want to in the long run I'll be happy and not pissed at myself for taking a short cut.
-Eric

911teo · 01-12-2006, 06:56 AM

I talked to the body shop that is going to do all the work to fix my car about deleting the sunroof....

They said they are going to use the stock sunroof panel and weld it to the roof. They will use some filling and you won't be able to see anything when the work is finished...

I ask them about fiberglass panels etc... They prefer to use the stock panel.

I plan to go to the bodyshop this afternoon... I will ask more questions if you want. I was ready to go with their recommendation.

The car is now on a celette to have the frame fixed from the big hit it took last month...

911teo · 01-12-2006, 11:15 AM

OK I just went to see my body shop guys... They are skeptical about the weight savings.... They say the whole sheet metal might be 20-30lbs...

In their opinion there might be 10-15lbs... I also asked about the reduced flexibility... They were also not convinced it would be that beneficial.

They can do whatever I want... and will be happy to take my money, but they were questioning if it was worth it...

rpiper · 01-13-2006, 12:55 PM

Have you talked to series900 on this board? I believe he sells a fiberglass panel that is a nearly exact fit for the opening. You would bond it in with the 3M stuff and then fill/paint, but there would be no risk of warping the roof when welding in the sunroof panel, and the fit is much better so there would be much less filling to do. This is something I'd like to do some day but the bodyshoptold me welding/filling etc would be $2K plus. That's not in the budget!!

Cornpanzer · 01-14-2006, 09:58 AM

Eric, Cut the patch, clean all of teh metal and take the car to someone like Bob B with a TIG welder to weld it in. Then you can finish it out. If you try to do it with a MIG, you will likely warp the crap out of the roof and make a lot of extra work for yourself. Plus the repair would require a lot of filler which is heavy =)

Erik Mckenna · 01-14-2006, 01:49 PM

Do you have a cutter? I am going to take the roof of of the green roller that Mr D has.. he said I could have the roof of it so all I nee to do is cut a patch out but I have noy way to do it.. you have the one you used to cut the S?

-Eric

eimkeith · 01-14-2006, 01:57 PM

At the shop, we've recently done the entire roof replacement (cut at the pillars) and the weld-in sunroof panel, and are in the process of mounting an entire fiberglass roof (cowl to decklid).

I can tell you that the weight savings over a sunroof roof assembly and a factory sunroof-delete roof are substantial - around 35+ pounds, easy.
Additionally, welding at the pillars is sturdy and compromising the strength of the roof is not an issue. We put a '72 sunroof delete roof on an '81 SC that had rolled a few times at Targa Newfoundland, just last month. Turned out great, and very strong.

I'm completing a sunroof panel weld-in job right now, and it is subtantially stiffer than it was previously. The removed material and motor/cable assembly weighed 20 pounds. The drains and uppermost roof-member are still on the car. The sunroof panel is NOT the same contour as the roof and must be coaxed into agreement with the roof, if you understand what I am saying.

The fiberglass roof (which REQUIRES a full cage) is similar in weight savings to a factory SR-delete roof, in my opinion, but noticeably lighter than a welded-in sunroof panel roof.

We billed 20 hours on the R&R roof job - probably not enough time.
The weld-in sunroof panel job will be 10+ hours (lots of small filler pieces to be made/aligned/welded in)

Is it worth it? Absolutely. More room for rollover protection height (away from your head/helmet - we also lower the factory seat mounts for additional clearance, lower CG), Less overhead weight.

Addditionally - the welded-sunroof panel won't develop cracks later (I suspect the fiberglass/CF bonded panels may).

BTW - teo, if the body shop doesn't want to mess with it, we'd be happy to address your sunroof when the car comes in for strut towers and coil-over reinforcements - let me know!