Adding Lightness - gut the fish
 

Today's project was starting to strip the interior. Here's the result:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1137722991.jpg

And how it starts adding up:

Rear seat backs: 5# each
Rear seat bottoms: 4# each (including some pad)
Rear carpet and pad: 20#
Rear parcel shelf and speakers: 11#
Rear seat belts: 1.5# each
Front seat belts: 2# each

I lost over 55# from my rear today. (Honey, does this make my butt look big?)

Let's say 10# for the RS carpets in the rear area - so a net of #45.

From yesterday's work:

Door Panels: 10# each, net 8# with RS Panels
Seats: 48# each, net 30# with Sparco seats

That's about 120# so far...

YES!
AC gone yet?
big battery gone yet?
Steering wheel gone yet?
Spare gone yet?

AC - No, very small weight penaty for drive home cooling.
Big Battery - planned.
Steering Wheel - yes, new Momo Mod 07 ready to install.
Spare - out when I get to the track.

That wil be a fun car! Thanks for the information!
Congrats,
Doug

And 17# for the front carpet/sound deadening...

Well, a nice roll bar or cage will add some more weight back - the diet jojo effect!

George

AC is a 60 lb penalty...

You sure you wanna add any carpeting in the rear ? The bare metal kind of adds a bit of racing look. Cool IMO.

I'm on the same path Don. Looks very familiar. I have a "Modified" muffler and I think one of the best things about this project is how the car sounds on the inside without the sound deadening pads. Very race car like.
I left mine bare metal and have removed the door panels and glass. I will replace it with plexiglass for those cool mornings.
My ride height changed a lot (raised 2-3 inches) after removing the weight, so start looking into new springs if they sren't adjustable on your car.

Have fun and keep us posted on the progress.

Not in a 933. Much simplier, more compact system. Tyson said 17# if I recall correctly? Anyway, one of my specific reasons for using a 993 platform, instead of an SC tub was working HVAC (plus better brakes, coilovers, and oh yes, a 3.6 in the tail).

Yes, the rollbar does add back in some weight. Hopefully we'll still be at a net loss.

Wavey - I was using a 10# = 1Hp. But as we know, lighter weight have better gains in terms of faster accelleration, deeper braking and less weight for the suspension to handle. Sure would be nice to get under 3000#.

Dream on...

Weight between the wheels, especially when it is low is the least significant kind of weight.

Most of these cars have to run a lot of ballast to make class weight. That's sort of good because the weight is taken from the ends(extremely important) and added low in the middle.

Don if you could, I would love a clean shot of the wiring at the top and passenger side. I can't get at mine till I take the rollbar out.

I am trying to nail down the rear widow and brake light wiring connectors.

I've always heard 15hp for every 100lbs. lost. So I would think your claim would be very close.

As for A/C, I'm with Don. Where we live and the tracks that he's going to, it's not un-common to see 110-115F. in the Summer. So I say unless you're trailering, keep the A/C, no mater what the weight penalty (17 vs. 60lbs.)!

Don, thanks for keeping us posted. Even though I'm not tracking anymore, I'll have to check your car out one of these days when you're at Thunderhill.

Bill - PM me with your email address and I'll post links for the pictures.

Yea, weight behind the rear wheels is best. With the WEVO motor mounts and cat bypass, that will take out about 25#. I'll eventually cut out the sunroof and replace with a CF panel.

Come see it anytime Matt. Maybe in another year or so they'll let me take passengers.

Wow, 110-115...bad news to be running AC on an aircooled engine in that eat if you get caught in traffic!

The ratio for weight loss to equivalent HP gain dependds on the weight o the car that is a heavier car like the 993 benefits slightly more than a lighter car like an SC or Carrera. Or at least that's what my math is telling me. A 2,756 lb Carrera with 217 hp stock has a weight to hp rating of 12.7 (lbs devided by hp). If you knock off 100 lbs and assume the same lbs per hp the gain is 7.9 hp. At least that's what my math works out to and I was not a math major soooo could be wrong.

Not true on the '90 and newer cars. The condensor is in the left front fender well, and the oil cooler is in the right. There is ne engine decklid condensor. So there is no extra heat added to the engine or oil cooler.


BTW, the A/C weight penalty is closer to 40# for the 964/993.

The compressor weighs 14#, and the rest is from the condensor and fan and the evaporator core. The lines are aluminum, and the evaporator is integral with the HVAC. It's a much lighter/simpler system.

Also the majority of the weight from the A/C is in front. The compressor is very light, and the bracket is integral with the engine mount, and is hollow aluminum.

Oh, and it actually works!

Tyson, Do you know if the 993 compressor can be used on a Carrera and also can it be run on R12? Thanks

I was watching some show on speed vision awhile back it was about how lower weight improves performance and they went thru all math BLA BLA and said that a loss of 100#'s is equal to about a 15 HP gain. So a performance improvement equal to an estimated 18 HP increase seems plausible.

Well, Don mentions it already, there is more advantage than just straight line acceleration with a lighter car. It is nice if there is less weight that wants to go straight in a turn.

3000 lbs is your goal? YIKES! What the heck is so heavy on a 993? My SC is 2575 lbs, if I remember right, and that's with hardly any lightening, besides a/c removal. I still have the truck battery, for example.

George

Wait a minute! 3000lbs as a goal?? A Stock 993NB coupe purportedly weighs in at 3080. With a gutted interior (don't put in any carpet IMO) and fg seats, you should easily be under 3K.

Edward

Well, as light as I can make it without resorting going insane. I'll have AC after all. If the glue and stuck on foam wasn't so gross, I'd definitely go no carpet like a real race car. But for now, I'll cover it up with lightweight RS carpets.

It's just a fun project and I can't want to get it on the track and see how it works.

The glue on foam is nothing that a good adhesive remover can't take off - without hurting the paint. 3M makes a good one, for example.

We DE / TT guys always say "I'll never race", but remember that you may want to go club racing one day. It would be nice if you could go back to stock to run stock class. If you have the room and patience to keep the bits you take off, do so. Otherwise, I am sure we'll be happy to buy your toy for 20 cents on the dollar, so you can buy club racing machine. :D

I think your decision to leave the a/c in is very good. I only pulled mine because it was dead and I don't do a/c work myself. After getting toasted at Thunderhill in July for a whole couple days, it is NOT much fun to drive home in a hot car through the central valley.

George

FYI, no passengers with PCA-GGR, unless you are doing a "family lap" or you graduate to be an instructor. Other clubs like NCRC will let you take passengers though. I recommend to go with GGR for the best instruction.

George

The lightwt. carpet - per se - is not going to save that much wt.

What you need to do is to remove many pounds of soundproofing gunk. That means the volume reoved will be large. Don't waste time on the thin tendrils of glue you find - unless it's a cosmetic thing - bu tyou can just spread carpet over that.

My stock '95 993 came in at 3045" w/ a full tank and all standard items.

here is a list of weights from Rennlist
Seats 71
Trunk Carpet 5
Sound Padding 40
Sound Deadening 10
Stock 3-way Belts 2
Rear Speakers 4
Front Speakers 4
Rear Seats 10
Rear Belts 4
Power Mirrors 5
Amp, Changer, Board 22
Heater Blower 10
Motorized Wing 8
Misc. Bolts 1
Decklid Shocks 1
Head Unit/Wiring 6
Bumperettes 2
Engine Tray 10
RS-Door Panels 12
Carbon Hood 20
WW Fluid Bottle/Pumps 12
Hood Shocks 1
Mufflers/Cat 60
Rear Impact Bumper 15
Front Impact Bumper 10
Cruise Control Brain 1
Pass Airbag 6
Fog Lamps 4
Cooler Brackets etc.. 2

Here's the link to the thread
weight

it's considerably lighter now.

Bill, Those must be weights for a 993. I went out ot the garage to check my weights and got these:


Rear seat backs at 13 lbs vs 10
Rear seat belts 3 vs 4
Rear bumper pads 14 vs 2
Windshield washer bottle empty 2.5 and 19 full of water vs 12
Cat with shield 15
Muffler 30
Sunvisors 2 (tired of hitting them with my head)
Steering wheel 6
Spare 33.5
Jack 5
Air pump 6.5 versus 40 lbs total for spare, jack and air pump
Also,
Stock air flow meter with filter 8

There is another weight lost list I saw posted but cannot find it now. I'll check areound later.

yes, those are all 993 weights, as was the subject in this thread

Thought Don's car rear seat area looked better than mine.

surely as the car gets lighter removing weight has an even bigger difference - because you are removing a bigger percentage of the total weight for every lb you remove. But then again maths wasn't my strong subject either..

You're absolutely right...and on both accounts. Lighter the car the bigger the gain as far as power to weight. I need another beer before I can complete my calculations. Maybe two beers to check my math.

Good thread, would like to see what kind of weights you come with in the end.

Joe A

I edited out the posts in this thread containing personal attacks. I hope too much worthwhile content wasn't also chopped, but this thread was getting a lot of complaints.

Thanks Jack. And to think I thought this was a thread on weight loss and not chip gain. Some day maybe I'll figure out why some people invest so much of their personality in a side line that should be taken as enjoying life. But then I'll be 60 this year and still cannot figure out what growing up is all about.

Hmmmm, I missed the drama.

When did chips enter the discussion?

Looks like my car did a few months ago. Isnt that yellow glue a bit@& to get off. I could not find any solvant that would cut that stuff. Ended up using gasoline in a well ventalated area. Got most of it out.

I agree lighten the heck out of everything, but Keep the AC !

I have spoken to guys who ripped it out and then driving home from the track in 110 degree heat is no fun sanwiched in a Recaro racing seat sweating for a few hours in traffic.

Me too - I'm very curious to see the final weight results on my Stage I, Stage II Progression.

And keeping the AC - I was strongly considering a fairly raw 74 MFI and Tyson brought clarity and direction back into my thinking based upon my original project goals. I'm very fortunate to have that caliber of advice.

Ultimately, any project is a series of compromises. Even for pure trailed track cars, budgets mean there are always compromises to be made. I'm balancing my goal to build a fun, safe platform to build seat time with budget and what I consider "livability needs". My choices will be different than others -- but I'll be having fun and learning through the process.

To be continued...

what's wrong with a chip that gains 50.454 HP on pump gas :rolleyes: