help me buy 1985 Porsche 911 Turbo Slantnose

[willyexner]

Hi 911 fellow members,

I am an old bones automotive project engineer, newbie to this forum, live in Europe and have owned in my life many exotic Italian sport cars, mostly Italians, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo but never a Porsche.

I am contemplating the idea of buying



a 1985 PORSCHE 911 Turbo WPO ZZZ 93 ZFS 00 3XX which you may see in detail by clicking this link taking you to a pictures gallery.

History:
I have been shown by the seller, the third owner from 2003, a Porsche Certificate stating that the frame number is was originally a 911 Turbo built in 1985.

The second owner is said of having bought the car at a justice auction after a legal seizure lasting ten years. The car history previous is wholly unknown. The having been stored in unsuitable conditions, the body needed repainting, the seized engine (said to be stamped 930/66 S, kit 330 bhp, front radiator, larger intercooler, K27 turbine) had new gaskets, new valves and new turbine. The car is now said to be in fair running order, missing a fuse cover, the intercooler top gasket and to have a (said to be a common defect of 911 turbo) a drop of oil between engine block and gearbox.

On pictures the slantnose conversion looks rather professional. Is there any way to tell if it was one made by the Factory special service department that was making these conversions?

For reasons of distance I have not yet inspected the car.
Obviously, being totally inexperienced on the specific make/model, I will be thankful for any advice from Porsche gurus as to what and where to look for weak spots, corrosion and any other hidden bug I may fail to notice.

Thanks and cheers!

Willy

[willyexner]

Sorry guys, this is the correct gallery link, a typo due typing with one finger, and in pain, from a broken collarbone... lunch time I fell to the ground with a Ducati 996 SPS to avoid a car invading my carriageway whilst I was coming round a mountain hairpin... blast!!!!!!!!!

Willy

[RickM]

Willy, The door strakes were not an item sold by the factory. They could have been added on though. the little I see of the front indicates a high quality job. Based on the contour of the headlight lids the fenders and lights very well may be factory.
Also, the jack point access seems to be in the proper position for a factory runnning board. This is typically not there on an aftermarket conversion.

Here's a thread on what to look for Anybody know this SC to 930S conversion?

[MIK911]

Doesn't look factory: The door strakes are not factory(as RickM mentioned), nor is the front bumper w/ built in fog/driving lights, nor is the front air dam/oil cooler, nor is the dual exhaust.
The way to tell is by the VIN (see if it matches a factory Turbo) PLUS an OPTION # (eg MOxx). The option # should be located on the VIN plate under the front bonnet (hood). It lists all option that came on the car, including the Factory Slant Nose Option (MOxx)--i don't know what the real option # is, but someone should have a decoder.
Ask the same question on the www.rennlist.com 911Turbo forum, and those guys will decipher it for you.
But from the pics above, it doesn't look factory.
I have the options decoder on my computer at work, but will be off the next day or so. If you still need it, PM me tuesday May 31.

mike
'86 coupe

[kycarguy 935]

The front end looks like most of the european SE slantnose cars I have found information on. Never seen the door strakes before though.

[rose]

Good Morning from Ireland !
First thing you need to do is contact Barry Smith or Phil Clarke in the Porsche Club Great Britain. These boys have carried out an indept study of all the factory slantnoses and as a result have formed the first register for these cars. They have recently been to the porsche AG archives to gather more info. At the end of August there will be the largest display of slantnoses ever seen at the international porsche festival at Brands Hatch. If you visit the PCGB website www.porscheclubgb.com you will be able contact Barry via email.
Good Luck

[willyexner]

This forum is what I call a brotherhood, thanks to fellow members:

RickM
MIK911
kycarguy 935 and
rose

I was offered a number of interesting opinions and trails to keep me busy while my collarbone and 8th rib bind!...

Many thanks to you all!

Willy

[slow&rusty]

Willy - Absolutely great looking car!! I cannot believe that the mileage is only at just over 51,000km - that is incredibly low.

A couple of things I picked-up in your description:
1) That front radiator is an oil cooler

2) You can inspect the exact type of Turbo as it will have a riveted plate on it describing the exact model (basically verifying if it is a K27)

3) I would be weary of buying a car that had a seized engine at such a low mileage and then rebuilt, UNLESS you can have it inspected by a Porsche Specialist verifying that the engine is infact healthy. Which gaskets have been replaced? Furthermore you said that the engine is in "fair running order", tha does not give me the warm and fuzzies. I was hoping you would say it is a blast to drive with power to spare.

4) Body and interior look excellent, espcially the low front spoiler lip does not look like there is a scratch on it - this is a good thing! Or it just recently came out of the Body Shop?

5) That top intercooler gasket is prone to come off like you say and it is only a rubber seal between the top of the intercooler and the inside of the whale tale to direct air over the top of it. Not a big deal to replace.

If the price is good and an independent Porsche garage says that the car is healthy I say go for it!!

Yasin

[rose]

OK, when you're up & about again get down on your knees and examine all the support brackets for the running boards under each door. Normally all the factory slantnoses have a code stamped on one of these brackets. This car if original was pre production and may not be stamped so, mine isn't. Barry has written an article in this months Porsche Post with reference to his trip to the Porsche Archives. It now transpires that the factory has little if none of the information relating to the pre-production slantnoses. Very strange when you consider what they cost, I believe mine cost nearly $100K in 1980.

[willyexner]

Originally posted by slow&rusty
Willy - Absolutely great looking car!! I cannot believe that the mileage is only at just over 51,000km - that is incredibly low.

Yasin, I agree she is a hooker... the mileage is explained by the 10+ years legal seizure, I am told the car is still shoed with haircracked epoch tires.

A couple of things I picked-up in your description:
1) That front radiator is an oil cooler

Yes, I called it radiator, which is language barrier, same as when I call damper a shock absorber.

2) You can inspect the exact type of Turbo as it will have a riveted plate on it describing the exact model (basically verifying if it is a K27)

Yes, Sir!

3) I would be weary of buying a car that had a seized engine at such a low mileage and then rebuilt, UNLESS you can have it inspected by a Porsche Specialist verifying that the engine is infact healthy. Which gaskets have been replaced? Furthermore you said that the engine is in "fair running order", tha does not give me the warm and fuzzies. I was hoping you would say it is a blast to drive with power to spare.

Perhaps I will say that soon... My fractured collarbone and ribs are healing fast, I should be inspecting the beauty end of next week.

4) Body and interior look excellent, espcially the low front spoiler lip does not look like there is a scratch on it - this is a good thing! Or it just recently came out of the Body Shop?

No, she was repainted three years ago and hardly used.

5) That top intercooler gasket is prone to come off like you say and it is only a rubber seal between the top of the intercooler and the inside of the whale tale to direct air over the top of it. Not a big deal to replace.

If the price is good and an independent Porsche garage says that the car is healthy I say go for it!! Yasin

Thanks for the advice. This is exactly the path I'll follow. Meanwhile a recognized expert, after going through a VIN research which confirmed that she is a real 930 SE factory job, wrote me too "GO FOR IT!!!" .

I keep my fingers crossed...

Willy

[willyexner]

Originally posted by rose
OK, when you're up & about again get down on your knees and examine all the support brackets for the running boards under each door. Normally all the factory slantnoses have a code stamped on one of these brackets. This car if original......

Rose,

thanks for the advice.
Meanwhile I have been advised by Bernie Scouser that his research proved the car is an original factory, hence next week I want to do a proper inspecting job. May you please drop me a pic with a mark showing where the stamped code should be found?

Cheers,

Willy

[BReyes]

Sounds like you know cars. Great. What a great car to consider.

It's the same thing here. Cost is based on condition (and luck too).

Do your inspection. Drive the car for a while and reinspect. In the end make sure you do a leakdown test too.

Regards,

[rose]

@ Willi .
I am not sure where your friend got his information from but I believe from my research into my own car that you cannot tell whether or not this car is a factory original or not from the Vin number. This car left the factory as a normal 930 and its certified chassis no as just this ( a normal 930). I believe only the genuine production slantnoses can be verified by their vin nos and option coses ; ie M505 and M506. When the car crossed the yard to Werk 1 anything was possible if you had the cash. I also believe most of the pre-production slantnoses had a porsche crested plaque like on mine fitted to the glove box ( photo attached )
Have some little doubts about what you are told by experts, the only real way is to write to Porsche AG like I did and get your letter of authenticity. Incidently there are two similar cars for sale near you at present www.mobile.de

[Kevin Stewart]

round or square head lights, the bumper actually looks like a euro bumper with the lights in it, 924's 944,s etc at simular items but were euro only items, Kevin

[willyexner]

Rose,

Thanks for your valued contributuion.
That piece of information on VIN comes from Bernie Scouser. I understand he is the person behind the VINdecoder found on the renntech.org site.
If you are at all conversant with JavaScript codes and you inspect the VINdecoder source, you should make my same opinion, Bernie has a brain!
He wrote: " [I have a collection of over 10,000 VIN numbers All of various Porsche models to compare with.] [I have been studying the Porsche VIN codes for 11 years and I can recognise them by sight.] [I love the 930 Turbo flatnose, this is my favourite of all the Porsche Models...] and [Yours is a gorgious looking car indeed.] [There are some issues you need to know about. There are "real" true flatnose 930's and 930 conversions. They both look identical. But one is a conversion and the other a factory made car which was one of the most expensive Porsches ever made. The factory 930 was never shipped to the US and was only available in RoW. The only real way of telling a 930 from a conversion is via the VIN.
Your VIN checks out to be a real one!
Go get it man!]"

Which I find encouraging to go deeper into analyzing that lovely lady.

You may help me further, before I go inspecting.
1.) Where are the codes M505 and M506 located?
2.) That most interesing brass plaque: any idea what the codes mean?
3.) My frame # checks for being 00350 made in 1985, what about yours, # and year?
4.) Please rest assured that, having been associated in the years with the programs of many automotive manufacturer experimental departments, I completely share your opinion about present day expert's opinions.
We analyze after decades the actions and the produce of men who worked most of times for the day, under the pressure of events and we presume they worked abiding strictly the Tables. I can tell for having been one of them... one month the truth would be white, the month after black, with some gray in between.
5.) Which is your expert's opinion of the two cars you signaled? Are you impressed?
6.) I posted a similar request for help in another Porsche enthusiasts forum and I received a number of appreciable inputs. You may see for yourself!

I close thanking you and all others lending a helpful hand in my research.

Cheers,

Willy

[rose]

Hi Willi,
With regard to this car it looks like a factory slantnose. There are two things which jump out at you when you look at it for the first time ( as everybody has noticed ): ie the front spoiler and the door rakes. I have literally dozens of photos which I have been collecting of the factory slantnoses and this is the first time I have seen these mods. There were 44 factory slantnoses in 1985 and 52 in 1986, all of these cars seem to have the spoiler fitted to the later production cars :ie the one with the smaller driving lights etc.Before 1985 most of the special wish cars had the quad light spoiler as in the photo attached.
With regard to the plaque Porsche could only tell me that the G & the A were the initials of the man who ordered the car which was the prototype for all to follow. This bears out because I have the original logbook. I still think you should sent an email to Barry Smith with what info you have and maybe he can throw some light on the subject. If you send me an email I will give you his direct contact. slantnose@iol.ie
Regards
Tony

[willyexner]

Originally posted by rose
Hi Willi,
With regard to this car it looks like a factory slantnose. There are two things which jump out at you when you look at it for the first time ( as everybody has noticed ): ie the front spoiler and the door rakes. I have literally dozens of photos which I have been collecting of the factory slantnoses and this is the first time I have seen these mods.

Hi Tony,
Correct... I am to inspect on Thursday, so I hope to have more facts to tell one week to day

There were 44 factory slantnoses in 1985 and 52 in 1986, all of these cars seem to have the spoiler fitted to the later production cars :ie the one with the smaller driving lights etc.Before 1985 most of the special wish cars had the quad light spoiler as in the photo attached.

Very interesting info. Do I see right? This car has no wing louvres and no retractable lights? Is the white beauty in the pic your own car?

With regard to the plaque Porsche could only tell me that the G & the A were the initials of the man who ordered the car which was the prototype for all to follow. This bears out because I have the original logbook. I still think you should sent an email to Barry Smith with what info you have and maybe he can throw some light on the subject. If you send me an email I will give you his direct contact. slantnose@iol.ie Regards, Tony

I sent an email to Barry and got him on the doorstep, going in vacation. Though, out of courtesy he managed to drop me an answer before leaving... This is it: Hi, the car appears genuine , however not possible to confirm without seeing it in the flesh,standard turbo inside no se trim, after market front spliter and door trims , their are no areas that are prone to rust , just have a very good look around the car in general.most LHD drives were 285 bhp / 300 bhp depending on what market they were made for, sorry I cant be of more help , away from wed the 1st until the 20th all the best Barry SE register

Cheers,

Willy

[rose]

hi Willi,
No mine is not the one in the photo,this one was from 1982. There is a similar one for sale in germany at present 1994 I think. Here is a photo of the first one (my baby ) no louvres just plain olde 935 lookalike. It was delivered on 10th October 1980 .Maybe if all works out for you ,you might join us for the festival at Brands Hatch 28/29 Aug.

[willyexner]

Originally posted by rose
hi Willi,
No mine is not the one in the photo,this one was from 1982. There is a similar one for sale in germany at present 1994 I think. Here is a photo of the first one (my baby ) no louvres just plain olde 935 lookalike. It was delivered on 10th October 1980 .Maybe if all works out for you ,you might join us for the festival at Brands Hatch 28/29 Aug.

Hi Tony,
thanks for sharing the pic of your baby.
My compliments, she looks real good, another fancy lady capable to make the blood of an unwitting passing by gentleman boil.

As for the louvres, I have learnt from the slantnose parts catalogue that one had the alternative to order:
930 503 031 50 = front wing with ventilation
930 503 031 06 = front wing without ventilation

For Brands, it is unlike that this year I may manage. All going well and winds being propice, about that period I should be sailing, my anchor bedded deep in the white sand of this island...
Cheers
Willy

[Ken911]

where do you get a slant nose parts catalouge? does anyone make steel fenders for these anymore?