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-   -   Creaking sound from right front shock (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/264924-creaking-sound-right-front-shock.html)

tonythetarga 02-07-2006 07:50 AM

check for ride height from side to side in the front. Measure from level ground to the top of the fender lip. If the adjuster is damaged, the ride height could have become altered. If they are fine, you can have it welded and retapped for the adjuster. Ride height adjustment not only affects height but also the corner balance weight. You should probably get a pro opinion. I also think the squeek is unrelated to this and is either the A arm bushings or the sway bar bushings.

redcoupe86 02-07-2006 08:39 AM

Quote:

Glad you explained.

It's made of aluminum.

If your cap/screw is back 1/8" you might want to get the chassis checked out. I'm not sure if you can slide the a-arm assembly fore and aft to compensate. Others will have to pitch in.

Driving wise- Worn tires, vibration, shimmying, pulling to one side. Worn out GM experience in a fine German auto.
If adjusting cap falls off then your tire will go up into your wheel well and mess up your day (could take you out ). That's like a torsion bar breaking. [/B]
The reason Im guessing it might be the a-arm moving fore and aft is I cant see how else it could have happened. For instance, the adjustment screw (which looks in age as the left side of the cars) doesn't have any damage on the head of the bolt. Nor is there any apparent damage to the crossmember other than the what I explained and showed in the image. I figured that b/c the a-arm sits in rubber bushings, that a hard enough hit would cause them to stretch fore and aft - if only for a split second, pushing the cap and therefore the adjust. nut into the crossmember and causing the crack.

Im beginning to get the full picuture of this cars history the more I get into it. You see not only are there scrape marks on the underside of the gas tank, but the underside of the heat exchangers have the slightest scrapes and so do the underside of the tailpipes. The underbody of the car is fine as well as the underside of the engine casing - but those parts are higher up. Whats also interesting is the back of the front left fenderwell has some undercoating that has been rubbed off - like how a rotating wheel would rub it off. However, the only way this could happen (it seems) is if the ball joint broke and let the wheel hit the back of the fenderwell while moving - or should I say colliding with somthing.

Its like the PO hit a curb and jumped it bottoming out the car for a split second an in the process tearing away the front wheel.

oneblueyedog 02-07-2006 08:50 AM

The curb jump is a pretty good guess.

On the issue of rubbing the undercoat off, It happens with some cars. My left front rubs the inner fender at full lock to the left. I have a very shiny inner panel. I'm lowered a bit. It started to rub after lowering.

The rubber bushings won't let the a-arm slide as they are vulcanized on them if you have original bushings. What may have happened is that when something hit the adjusting nut on the cap, it may have knocked the cap back off the splines of the T bar and lodged against the cracked long arm causing the bulge and crack. The repair was to remove the destroyed cap and replace it. That scenario would have to be of some terrific force at just the right place, but very ppossible.

redcoupe86 02-07-2006 09:05 AM

I thought the very thing you did, but if they did replace the cap and screw one thing bothers me, the screw is still pushed back up against the crossmember at the crack. Maybe one possibility is that the cap was replaced, but since the bulge was still there the cap simply worked its way back off the splines and pushed up against the bulge.

The other thing might be somthing in the frame is pushed/bent and the cap cant be pressed forward anymore. What would I look for if that was the case?

oneblueyedog 02-07-2006 09:26 AM

See if you can tap the cap back in. Take the load off the wheels and remove the underpan. Use jack stands. The adjusting screw has to rest on that steel perch in the long arm under load. See if yours is.

Maybe you can heat the affected area on the long arm to beat it back in place. Careful though. There's a lot of fuel around those areas. I have doubts that that will work in that it's probably forged.

If your frame is bent you'll have to try to bend it back on a straightening bench that body shops have.

redcoupe86 02-07-2006 09:47 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by oneblueyedog
[B]See if you can tap the cap back in. Take the load off the wheels and remove the underpan. Use jack stands. The adjusting screw has to rest on that steel perch in the long arm under load. See if yours is.[QUOTE]

Yes, mines does rest on the steel perch and has the same number of threads showing as the other side of the car. I need to find where to put jack stands on the front. Right now Im up on ramps. If I have to take the load off Im assuming Ill need the wheel to be hanging free?

Shadetree930 02-07-2006 09:51 AM

The creak .... it IS the torsion bar rubbing. You can spend a ton of time and money chasing this squeak but the minute you do the weld thing, problem gone.

redcoupe86 02-07-2006 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by prials
The creak .... it IS the torsion bar rubbing. You can spend a ton of time and money chasing this squeak but the minute you do the weld thing, problem gone.
I do belive you are right. Right now my inquest into this creak has forced me to look at fixing my crossmember first before I can start fiddling with the creak, but I will look into it once this is sorted out.

Thrasher 02-07-2006 11:04 AM

Sorry to hijack, but now you've got me really paranoid - my crossmember is not cracked there - it's missing the material altogether (as depicted below). I guess it never really occurred to me that this could be a real issue since there is (almost) always force holding the t-bar cap in place. I guess conceivably the front end could unweight and things could slip backwards and pop the cover (and its splines) off

My PO must've hit something low and probably knocked off the t-bar cover in the process. I can't believe the shop didn't address this when they did the repairs.

I've driven the car over 1,000 miles with it this way, including a DE - yikes :eek: (and presumably the PO drove it many miles before me)

Does it require any special welding skills to fill in a gap like this on an Aluminum piece. Would a metal fabrication shop be more skilled at something like this, or an automotive shop?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1139338713.jpg

redcoupe86 02-07-2006 11:43 AM

Quote:

Does it require any special welding skills to fill in a gap like this on an Aluminum piece. Would a metal fabrication shop be more skilled at something like this, or an automotive shop?
Freaky isn't it!! Im hoping the bar is easy to remove. If I were to have never had damage I wouldn't be to worried getting it off. I guess you have to take the cap off to drop the bar, but if mine is wedged on there Im not sure how I am going to get it off.

Thrasher 02-07-2006 12:40 PM

I found this thread while looking for more info: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=244031&highlight=crossm ember+and+repair

Sounds like it's an easy remove, but will lose your front ride height settings. I guess you could mark the threads with paint and keep the screws sorted to the correct side, but I just corner balanced my car last season and will probably try to get this repaired w/o removing the crossmember - it's pretty accessible.

If you're saying the t-bar is stuck in the tube, you can drill a hole in the front cover and use a drift pin to knock it loose. If you're saying the cap is wedged in there, I'd say loosening/removing the ride height screw may buy you some wiggle room, but after that it's just sitting on there, unless it's rusted. You should be able to work it free with a pry bar and some strong words.

redcoupe86 02-08-2006 07:23 PM

ok, got the car up and the jack stands under the front a-arm front brackets - that is a pain in the butt let me tell ya!!!:D Anyway, i think that my squeeking sound and this cracked crossmember may be related. It seems like the cap was barely on, cocked at and angle from the hit it must have taken. It almost fell off as I unscrewed the adjustment nut. This may have let the torsion bar not sit centered in the tube. Again, just a theory. But I'm going to get the crossmember fixed and reassemble the whole thing and see if the squeek will go away.

rnln 04-24-2006 01:13 AM

Hi Redcoupe86,
My front end get some queaky cracking noise when the car goes up the payment while turning too. Guess what, I also found a crack in the thin area of the cross member, where the adjustment nut is, too. So I did a search and found your thread. Same problems, same situation leading to same second issue.
The pic below is my car.
Have you ever found a fixed? Please let me know. Now I affraid to drive my car.
http://doublehonline.dynalias.com/ca.../Broken_03.jpg

redcoupe86 04-24-2006 04:27 AM

My fix was to buy new a-arms, one of mine ended up being very slight bent (and the bushings were shot) so i coudn't use the aftermarket bushings i wanted. I also had to buy new torsion bars. The fix for the crossmember was easy, i just took it to a machine shop and had them weld the crack - 30 bucks, but by the time i was done with the whole front end job (including resetting ride height and front end alingment) i was in the 1200 dollar range - the new a-arms were about 400 bucks, if you can reuse yours and just get new bushings you can save about 400+ dollars. If you go that route get the poly bronze bushings.

Quote:

Originally posted by rnln
Hi Redcoupe86,
My front end get some queaky cracking noise when the car goes up the payment while turning too. Guess what, I also found a crack in the thin area of the cross member, where the adjustment nut is, too. So I did a search and found your thread. Same problems, same situation leading to same second issue.
The pic below is my car.
Have you ever found a fixed? Please let me know. Now I affraid to drive my car.
http://doublehonline.dynalias.com/ca.../Broken_03.jpg


rnln 04-25-2006 04:23 PM

Thanks RedC,
I plan on just weld that piece for now, if they can weld it on the car. If I have to take it off, then some replcement part(s) will come in.

Thrasher 04-26-2006 06:46 AM

Mine was also broken out at that spot. I was told there was no way to weld it on the car, due to proximity to fuel tank, fuel lines for safety, but also to rubber bushings that would probably melt from the heat of TIG welding.

I replaced mine while it was off, and will sell the other one once I have a chance to get it fixed.

redcoupe86 04-26-2006 07:07 AM

id have to agree with Thrasher - you should take it off. Of course, its not that big of deal - the real PIA is taking off and replacing the front A-arms and/or bushings, then resetting the ride height. You can drop the crossmember in about an hour or less.


Quote:

Originally posted by Thrasher
Mine was also broken out at that spot. I was told there was no way to weld it on the car, due to proximity to fuel tank, fuel lines for safety, but also to rubber bushings that would probably melt from the heat of TIG welding.

I replaced mine while it was off, and will sell the other one once I have a chance to get it fixed.


rnln 04-26-2006 10:37 AM

Do I have to take the A arm apart and readjust ride heigh when taking off the cross member?

Thrasher 04-26-2006 10:44 AM

No. You'll only have to remove your belly pan, swaybar and ride height adjusters/torsion bar caps. Those, and the two steering rack bolt and the two main bolts that hold the crossemember on (near the ends) are all you'll remove. Then, just knock the crossmember off of the a-arms.

You may end up loosening the a-arm front mounts for maneuvaribility, but those won't affect alignment. Just don't tighten them down until you've replaced the crossmember or it could cause you fits (guess how I know).

IF you count the threads/turns when removing the adjuster screws and IF you don't replace anything "while you're in there", you should be able to re-create the ride height when reassembling by re-threading in the same number of turns. Worked for me.

rnln 04-26-2006 01:49 PM

Thanks Thraser

Should the car be jacked up at the body chassis (wheels free fall) or should the wheel/hub be jacked up as the car is sitting on the wheel?
thanks.


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