Bolts for Weltmeister Strut Bar

HarryD · 05-30-2007, 09:49 PM

I recently purchased a used Weltmeister Strut bar but it did not come with the replacement bolts for the camber plate. Per my PET they are 10 x 20 bolts.

I figure I need longer bolts to mount the bar. Does anyone know what size and grade I need?

TIA

911pcars · 05-30-2007, 10:14 PM

Just a little longer - maybe. Basically the additional thickness of the WM strut mount bracket (which isn't much). The camber plate has threaded through holes so a slightly longer bolt shouldn't affect anything. To verify, remove one of the two camber plate bolts that attach the WM plate and insert a thin screwdriver blade into the opening and see how much room there is just past the last thread. Set the parking brake and block the tires so the car doesn't move. BTW, the camber plate attaches to the chassis with 3 bolts.

BTW, here's my upgraded WM with an aluminum strut bar replacing the steel one:

...and a triangulated setup with modified WM brackets:

Sherwood

HarryD · 05-30-2007, 10:53 PM

Sherwood,

Thanks for the info. I figured as much.

I like how you modified the Welty mounting plates. What size hole is that?

911pcars · 05-30-2007, 11:46 PM

"What size hole is that?"

Harry,
You mean for the strut nut? Just large enough to access the nut with an impact socket. YSSMV (Your socket size may vary, aprox. 1.25").

Sherwood

HarryD · 06-01-2007, 05:39 PM

Sherwood,

My machinist and I looked at the detail of your plate modification (photo below). Did you also machine the strut washer to fit within the hole? I ask because it looks like the washer on the top of my strut is about 2" and will not be clear of the hole you drilled, yet your picture appears to show the washer to be smaller than the hole.

Curve Eater · 06-01-2007, 06:39 PM

Anyone have a WM aluminum strut mount for sale? I would love to get one of these.

Bill

911pcars · 06-01-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarryD
Sherwood,

My machinist and I looked at the detail of your plate modification (photo below). Did you also machine the strut washer to fit within the hole? I ask because it looks like the washer on the top of my strut is about 2" and will not be clear of the hole you drilled, yet your picture appears to show the washer to be smaller than the hole.

Harry,
To be honest, I'm not sure I ever removed the washer through the new opening after the modification, but I just measured it just to be sure. The washer I have is smaller than the enlarged hole which measures 35mm ID (~1.38").

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

911pcars · 06-01-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Curve Eater
Anyone have a WM aluminum strut mount for sale? I would love to get one of these.

Bill

Bill,
I can supply a replacement aluminum tube, al. rod ends and new threaded hardware, but I have yet to see a WM strut bar bracket mount made of aluminum.

Sherwood

Curve Eater · 06-01-2007, 10:04 PM

911pcars, you have a PM

Jeff Alton · 06-01-2007, 10:12 PM

HarryD, if you need some metric hardware, let me know. It is plentyful up here and if I don't have it on hand, I can get it in a day and mail it off to you.

Cheers

HarryD · 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911pcars
Harry,
To be honest, I'm not sure I ever removed the washer through the new opening after the modification, but I just measured it just to be sure. The washer I have is smaller than the enlarged hole which measures 35mm ID (~1.38").

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

Ah-so.. My washer on the top is almost 2 1/2"OD.

I think I will have my machinist enlarge the central hole to about 1-1/2" ID and then use a washer or two between the strut brace bracket and the camber plate bars to raise the bracket over the top of the big washer. So I guess I really will need those longer bolts now.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Alton
HarryD, if you need some metric hardware, let me know. It is plentyful up here and if I don't have it on hand, I can get it in a day and mail it off to you.

Thanks for the offer but I have no problem getting metric hardware locally (my local ACE hardware has 99+% of what I need and they are open on Sunday to boot).

Jeff Alton · 06-01-2007, 10:35 PM

Cool, my local metric warehouse has plenty of stock if anybody needs anything..... (it is about 40,000 sq feet)

Cheers

911pcars · 06-01-2007, 11:28 PM

"Ah-so.. My washer on the top is almost 2 1/2"OD.

I think I will have my machinist enlarge the central hole to about 1-1/2" ID and then use a washer or two between the strut brace bracket and the camber plate bars to raise the bracket over the top of the big washer. So I guess I really will need those longer bolts now.
"

Harry,
Not sure if I'm missing something from my strut tower assy., but the washer I have is merely a thin lock washer for the shock insert nut (bend tab upwards against the nut flat).

It appears that if you install spacers under the WM strut bracket, you might have enough room to slide the large washer under the bracket (after removing the strut) thus avoiding making the hole too large. I've seen some modified bracket holes enlarged to the point of breaching the edge, creating a C-shaped bracket and thus weakening the structure. Try to avoid this.

Sherwood

HarryD · 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 911pcars
"Ah-so.. My washer on the top is almost 2 1/2"OD.

I think I will have my machinist enlarge the central hole to about 1-1/2" ID and then use a washer or two between the strut brace bracket and the camber plate bars to raise the bracket over the top of the big washer. So I guess I really will need those longer bolts now.
"

Harry,
Not sure if I'm missing something from my strut tower assy., but the washer I have is merely a thin lock washer for the shock insert nut (bend tab upwards against the nut flat).

It appears that if you install spacers under the WM strut bracket, you might have enough room to slide the large washer under the bracket (after removing the strut) thus avoiding making the hole too large. I've seen some modified bracket holes enlarged to the point of breaching the edge, creating a C-shaped bracket and thus weakening the structure. Try to avoid this.

Sherwood

Sherwood,

Your washer sounds non-stock to me. This what mine looks like (thanks scottb for the photo) :

I quite agree that the "C" shape like this:

is what I am trying to avoid (apologies to GeorgeM). I do note that he has a different camber plate setup (more like yours) then what I or scottb appear to have.

Also, since the sides of these bolts will get some shear forces, I am thinking a grade 12.8 (SAE Grade 8) would be correct instead of a more typical 8.8 (SAE Grade 5) for this type of application.

911pcars · 06-02-2007, 12:27 AM

Harry,
If I'm not mistaken, the large cup-shaped washer isn't used. The middle of the WM bracket is shaped like the factory washer and thus used in its place.

Do you have the large washer installed under your WM bracket?

Sherwood

HarryD · 06-02-2007, 07:48 AM

Sherwood,

I have not yet installed the bracket. If I did a "standard" install of the Weltmeister bracket, I can see how the large washer would be replaced by the Weltmeister bracket. Since I will be removing the center of the bracket (that replaces the washer) I think I need to keep something there.

I guess I could reduce the size of the washer but since it has a key to keep the strut thread from turning and I would think keeps the strut top secured to the rubber bushing in the camber plate, I think it will be a giant step backwards to replace the large washer with a smaller, standard one.

I would prefer to keep the stock washer and have the Weltmeister bracket "bridge" over the washer. This would allow me to return to a 100% stock configuration.

HarryD · 06-16-2007, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HarryD
Sherwood,

I have not yet installed the bracket. If I did a "standard" install of the Weltmeister bracket, I can see how the large washer would be replaced by the Weltmeister bracket. Since I will be removing the center of the bracket (that replaces the washer) I think I need to keep something there.

I guess I could reduce the size of the washer but since it has a key to keep the strut thread from turning and I would think keeps the strut top secured to the rubber bushing in the camber plate, I think it will be a giant step backwards to replace the large washer with a smaller, standard one.

I would prefer to keep the stock washer and have the Weltmeister bracket "bridge" over the washer. This would allow me to return to a 100% stock configuration.

I had my machinist cut a 1-1/2" hole in the center of the Weltmeister bracket.

When I went to install it, the Weltmeister bracket interfered with the large washer on the strut. I slipped two 10 mm washers (one was too thin) between the Weltmeister bracket and the strut bracket plates to move it up a bit. The fit seems good and I used M10 x 35 (grade 12.9) cap bolts to hold the whole thing together.

I will now check this off my list.

Thanks to all for their support.

911pcars · 06-16-2007, 09:35 PM

Harry,
Sounds good. Glad everything worked out okay. Let me know if you want to lighten the WM a little more.

Sherwood