About to swap my 1986 3.2 Carrera for a 1970 2.2E

[Geronimo '74]

A while back I saw this beauty on a car expo here locally..

A 1970 2.2E, restored a while back and with modified interior (no carpet, no headliner, half cage, bucket seats, 4 point harness), non original wheels (Fuchs but not period correct)
Looks great, seems to be in very clean rust free condition. Original engine with Bosch mechanical pump, dogleg tranny, also original to the car. original interior parts come with it.
Supposed to be a great driving car.
I have always loved longhoods..
I'm going over to have a look this Saturday.








Since my '86 3.2 Carrera has been a garage queen for the last decade almost. (I face a psychological wall, which is 200K kms on the odometer... stupid, I know)
I was contemplating selling mine and going for the longhood. Hoping it will revive my driving enthusiasm.
I'm pretty sure I will miss it but it's just a car, right? It needs to be driven.



I am planning to sell the 3.2, including some extras, front and rear bumpers, extra decklid, extra whale tale (sans trimmings), 2x Recaro PSA carbon bucket seats, and a bunch of assorted trinkets. Hopefully I won't have to dish out too much extra cash to match the asking price of the red one. Which is a little over 70K €.


Your opinions, comments, questions are helpful and welcome.

Anything in particular I absolutely must check when looking at the red one?
Any obvious reason why I shouldn't proceed?

[MrBonus]

I went from a near-stock '89 to a '71 hot rod with a harness setup. Just be prepared for more annoying little things to fail that are generally easier to fix. Be prepared to be less comfortable, hear more noises, smell more smells, but the experience is rawer, the car is lighter, and the sense of speed is greater. The 901 isn't a fun traffic transmission but it's quite enjoyable on backroads where you aren't worried about being rear-ended at a stoplight.

I do miss using the '89 for longer trips, especially on the highway, where it was noticeably more comfortable but the '71 is far more fun to drive. I made it my goal to make the '71 as "maintenance free" as possible with the ECU/EFI setup which replaced the Weber carbs and I am a lot happier as a result.

[AG81]

I also went from a near perfect (88) in October 2023 to a needs everything (72). It's a completely different experience and I think for the better. The description Mr. Bonus describes above is spot on.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by Geronimo '74

A while back I saw this beauty on a car expo here locally..

A 1970 2.2E, restored a while back and with modified interior (no carpet, no headliner, half cage, bucket seats, 4 point harness), non original wheels (Fuchs but not period correct)
Looks great, seems to be in very clean rust free condition. Original engine with Bosch mechanical pump, dogleg tranny, also original to the car. original interior parts come with it.
Supposed to be a great driving car.
I have always loved longhoods..
I'm going over to have a look this Saturday.








Since my '86 3.2 Carrera has been a garage queen for the last decade almost. (I face a psychological wall, which is 200K kms on the odometer... stupid, I know)
I was contemplating selling mine and going for the longhood. Hoping it will revive my driving enthusiasm.
I'm pretty sure I will miss it but it's just a car, right? It needs to be driven.



I am planning to sell the 3.2, including some extras, front and rear bumpers, extra decklid, extra whale tale (sans trimmings), 2x Recaro PSA carbon bucket seats, and a bunch of assorted trinkets. Hopefully I won't have to dish out too much extra cash to match the asking price of the red one. Which is a little over 70K €.


Your opinions, comments, questions are helpful and welcome.

Anything in particular I absolutely must check when looking at the red one?
Any obvious reason why I shouldn't proceed?

what are you asking for your 86 i might have somebody for it..

Ivan

[2.7RS]

That 70E looks very well sorted and taken care of.
at 70k euros seems very reasonably priced

Or maybe US prices are stupidly inflated.(just like the food thread)

Seems like a great car. Enjoy it

[evan9eleven]

That 70 is stunning! Go for it!

[Geronimo '74]

Useful info, guys, thanks.
I’ll update with more pics tomorrow.

[Geronimo '74]

Went for a looksee and a drive.
While the car was completely as described, the drive left me a bit unsatisfied.
It drove as well as a 2.2E would but it did not convince me as much as I thought it would.

Acceleration and handling was good but not as crisp as I would have liked.
The car is 54 years old so maybe it is not fair to compare it too much with a modern classic like the 3.2. It felt lighter and nimble but reaction to the gaspedal was a bit sluggish. Maybe it is due to the Bosch MFI or I did not keep it high enough up the rev range, I don't know. (It was a first testdrive so I kept it civil)
But still, I was hoping to be convinced swapping 3.2 for 2.2 was a good idea.
I was not.

I love the red longhood, it is gorgeous. It is a good, good car, clean and well maintained.
Unfortunately, the interior is stripped and the original parts and seat (singular) were not stored to my liking. Piled up when removed, not cleaned, nicely packaged and stored. A pile of dirty and dusty parts, unclear of what was missing and what was not.

That and the fact my car is set up as I like it.
I know what I have in my possession. A really nice example of the 3.2 Carrera.
Not a perfect one, but almost perfect to me.
Only issue is that idiotic mental obstacle of the 200.000kms on the odometer.

So I decided to change tactics.
Instead of buying the red one and obligating myself to sell the 3.2 in short order.
I am going to convert my car back to stock(ish) on my own time.

Out with the cheapo rennsport carpet set and Recaro buckets, in with a new carpet set and my stock seats (which are properly cleaned and stored )
Stock airfilter snorkle is going back on instead of the cut up cup airfilter cover. This will quiet it down a tad.

I will give the exterior some TLC and have it fully detailed.

I'll drive it a while in this new configuration, allowing me the time to evaluate what I am actually getting rid off. (I haven't really driven it enough in the last years to make a well founded decision)
I will make my mind up about selling before I hit 200K on the clock.
Maybe I'll fall in love all over again, maybe I will be thinking about changing.

[H-viken]

There’s no reason why the chassis cannot be as good or better than that on your 3,2, it’s basically the same basic set-up

Engine characteristics will be different

The biggest noticeable difference to me going from a 3,2 to a 911 from 1970, besides the weight, is the aerodynamics. Get above 150 in the older car and it gets very light. The airdam and wing kept my 3,2 much more stable. Sure similar can be added to the early car but that also changes the look

[PeteKz]

Keep what you have. And I say that as a longhood owner, although I built a 3.2 engine for mine...

There's nothing magic about 200K. Hell, you're already at 320K! In kilometers.

You know your car inside and out at this point. She's been a good and faithful partner. Are you gonna kick her out of bed now?

Edit: I just noticed that's 200,000 kilometers, which as Bruce pointed out, is only 124,000 miles. But the same idea--it's just an arbitrary number.

Step over here and let me introduce you to Ivan in Bohemia. He's coming up on 500,000. Miles. Not kilometers.

[Bruce911_]

Not sure what you obsession is with not going over 200,000 km which is 124k miles.I have 157k miles on my ‘88 Carrera and there are cars on here that have way more miles than mine. I say the more miles the better. Just drive and enjoy the car. .

[Nditiz1]

If presented with both cars it would be a tough decision, but ultimately I'd choose the 3.2. The longhood is aesthetically more appealing to me, but lacks in power and shifting. 901s are fine, but I'm not a fan. People usually never wish they had less power in their 911. Also as far as rebuilding, I would much rather tear down an aluminum block and not a mag block. I also don't feel like trying to learn mfi if something goes south. All the check boxes for me are on the 3.2 with looks being on the longhood. One reason I just backdated my 912e, always wanted a longhood, but for very little money.

[fanaudical]

That 3.2 is beautiful! It's a shame it's stuck in the garage. Here's an idea:

Cover the odometer with a piece of electrical tape. Then drive it.

Mileage be damned - these things were meant to be driven hard and enjoyed!

[rattlsnak]

I'd stick with the 3.2 also. The only factor in the early car is nostalgia.

[Balisong]

I’d always choose a galvanized car.
I’d also always choose a fuel injection car.
The SC, 3.2, and 964 are all the cars I need to have for the rest of my life.

[Geronimo '74]

Originally Posted by H-viken

There’s no reason why the chassis cannot be as good or better than that on your 3,2, it’s basically the same basic set-up

Engine characteristics will be different

The biggest noticeable difference to me going from a 3,2 to a 911 from 1970, besides the weight, is the aerodynamics. Get above 150 in the older car and it gets very light. The airdam and wing kept my 3,2 much more stable. Sure similar can be added to the early car but that also changes the look

Very true.

I could get the 2.2 to drive as tight as the 3.2
But I did al the necessary suspension work on my 3.2 already and I don't feel like starting with an blank canvas and doing the work again on the 2.2 just to get it to drive better or as good as the 3.2.

My car does feel a lot heavier, no denying that, but it does pick up speed very nicely.
And it does stay stable well past 150 km/h.

Yesterday I started removing the Recaro Racing seats and I have put the stock seats back in.
I must be entering old geezer territory, but man, I forgot how much more comfortable they make the overall driving experience.
Just getting in and out of the car is a huge difference.

Like I thought, the stock airbox cover only made it a little bit more quiet. Not much though. SSI's and a M&K exhaust are pretty obvious, but the stock airbox cover did make them a bit more civil. Which, turns out, I can appreciate also.

Next on my list is a new carpet set (from Lakewell) and some TLC to get the exterior all freshened up. i just need to find a detailer who has experience with classic cars. Not one that only does high end glossy stuff.

[PeteKz]

Be very careful with Lakewell. I ordered the door pockets for my 1973 from them a few months ago, and they are complete crap. They are not even the right shape.

[Arlo911]

Hi Geronimo, if you want good carpets check out KHM (cabrio.de) in Germany, Lakewell is not that great in my opinion. Also, I might be interested in the Recaro's

[Geronimo '74]

Thanks for the heads up on the interior, guys.
KHM, I will check them out first, thanks.

Not sure if I’m ready to part with the recaros though.
I remember getting a pretty good deal when I got them..

[Matt Monson]

Backdate your 74, and keep the Carrera?

I owned a 75 with a 2.2e engine and a 74 with a 3.2 swap, at the same time. They drove like two totally different cars dues to the engine. You have to keep the 2.2E engine on boil. It’s a more engaging drive, which can be both a good thing and a bad thing. I think it’s more fun to drive at the limit, but not as pleasant to just jump in and go for a cruise. I think part of the decision comes down to what you want out of the car.