Question about MFI Protractors
 

I have located some of the rare MFI protractors but the set is incomplete. There are only 4 protractors and pointers instead of the five shown in CMA. The three early protractors, set P228B, for the 2.0 and 2.2 are all there as well as the three pointers. There is, however, only one protractor from the set P228C for the 2.4 throttle bodies.

My question is, can I use these on my 2.4 without the second protractor and pointer from P228C? In other words, can I swap out the one P228C on either side of the throttle bodies or do I need to have both to use at the same time?

I notice that in the thread More fun with MFI and LM-1, Grady Clay says:

"The protractor set consists of two P-Tools; P228b and P228c.

P228b contains the protractor for the pump and a pair of protractors for the left and right 2.0 and 2.2 throttle bodies. It also contains three wire pointers.

P228c contains only two protractors for the 2.4 and 2.7 throttle bodies and two pointers."

and

"The pair of protractors for the throttles goes with the throttle bodies not the stacks. The protractor for the pump fits all. P228c is just an addition/supplement to P228b. Everyone would (should) have all five protractors to make a set." (Emphasis added)


Finally, anyone have a "guestimate" as to the value of four out of five protractors? I don't mind spending some money to get these - there are several of these MFI cars in my area so I'm sure they would get some use - but I want to pay a fair price and I want to be able to use them for my '73 911E. Thanks for any help you can give.

P228C is a single protractor for 2.4 MFI, IIRC. I think you need a set of P228B and two sets of P228C for MFI adjustments. For 2.4 MFI, the protractor for the injection pump (from the P228B set) is used with the two P228C protractors (used for the throttle bodies). I'm doing this off the top of my head so I could be mistaken.

I learn something new every day. I just went and looked at some old VW-Porsche tool catalogs (Zelenda and Assenmacher) and Jim is right on.

The July ’79 Zelenda price list has P228b at $207.90 and P228c at $52.93.

For the complete set you need P228b and two P228c. Both the Factory Workshop Manuals and the CMA seem to say that P228c has two protractors. I need to find my copies of the Factory Tool Catalogs and see what they indicate.

Thanks Jim.

Best,
Grady

Bump to see if someone can answer my two questions.

1. Can I use these on my 2.4 without the second protractor and pointer from P228C? In other words, can I swap out the one P228C on either side of the throttle bodies or do I need to have both to use at the same time?

2. Anyone have a "guestimate" as to the value of four out of five protractors?

Thanks SmileWavy

If I recall correctly, I paid about $75 for my set of 228b protractors with only one pointer. I don't have the addendum.

The correlation takes three protractors simultaneously. One for the pump and one for each throttle body. You can’t move them once set. With ’69-’71 it only tales P228b. With ’72 and later it takes the pump protractor from P228b and the two P228c throttle body protractors.
I don’t have a clue. I suspect an incomplete set would sell for a substantial discount and you can try and find the single P228c protractor to fill the set. The pointers are easily made from brass brazing rod.

Best,
Grady

Let me chime in hear and say that I have been researching protractors for a few months. The info so far presented here is correct, AFA my findings are concerned. But, the reason there are 3 protractors for the 2.0 and 2.2 is because all 3 are different. The 228c are the identical and are used, as stated, with the pump protractor from the 228b set.

Here's whee one of my sources differs: He says that if you order (NLA) the 228c new, you get a pump protractor in the set. So, if you have both sets as supplied new, you would have 2 pump protractors and 4 throttle body ones. That's news to me that the 228c's were available as just a pair.

Now, let's get back to the question. Since the TB 228c's are identical, I don't see why one couldn't use just one with the pump protractor (2 in all). It would be the easiest, but it seems one could check one side and note the correlation and then do the other. To my thinking, the first side won't change after you remove the 228c and switch. It would be a lot of going back and forth if you decided to make wholesale changes, but for checking the correlation, I believe I could do it with one 228c and one pump.

As I said, this is not the case with the 2.2. They are way different, but with the same scale, due to clearance problems.

I have found some discrepancies and will report when all the research is done. If anyone has just one 228c available for me to buy, I can finish up.

Last thought: Although a very esoteric tool and not for the casual user, these are getting harder to find. I suspect now that the 228c is NLA, they might go the way of the early hood badge in price. For what was described here by the original poster (4 in all), I would have no problem offering $300.

Thanks guys. Like Zeke, I've been researching these for some time now and this is my first chance to buy some. As I said in my original post, I don't mind spending some money but don't want to throw money away either!

Unfortunately, from what I've seen, it appears Zeke is correct:

If onyone knows a source of these for around the $300.00 Zeke suggested, please chime in. The ones I'm looking at are about 50% above that. :eek:

Zeke,

If I buy these four, I'd be willing to mail the one 228C to you so that you can finish up your project if you'll do the same in return. I'll PM you if I get these.

Hey, thanks. But do check Stoddards and Sunset before spending 50% more for the incomplete set. I think the price new on the 2.2 set is under 300. You would be paying a lot for the one 228c, IMHO.

That is if they still have a few sets of the 228b around somewhere. Contact RSDreamer on this bbs to get some more info. He is the one that bought the 228B new late last year from Sunset.

Thanks for all the help here. It turns out that Sunset Imports can still get the early set of protractors (P228b) "from Germany" for $219.31. The late set (P228c) was sold individually (one protractor and one pointer) but is no longer available. The last price they had for that protractor was $192.90 (remember, you need two of these). I was told that they can still try to order P228c from Germany but without a guarantee that one can be found.

Anyway, with this information I was able to negotiate a better price on the four I was looking at. Anyone got a clearer explanation about how to use them than what is in CMA?

Zeke, I owe you a beer if you're ever in NC. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...s/beerchug.gif

Thanks everyone for the info on the protractors. I've been looking for a set and couldn't locate any for sale. The sets that have sold went for good money. I just called Sunset and purchased a set of P228b's for my '69 to help set it up after I rebuild; $219.31 as David noted. Seems like a lot of $$ for so little but they'll be nice to have handy.

These might get really valuable soon as Sunset showed only 4 sets left in Germany. So those that would like a set may want to talk to Phil in their parts department -- BTW, I have no affiliation with Sunset Imports. Now if I can only find a used P290 for a decent price...

Here's mine, I tried to make it clear.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=277484&highlight=correl ation

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149710048.gif

I'll post a link to this in the resources thread.

If my new set comes with any instructions (doubtful) I'll post them on the board.