Water injection systems for Turbos

[Pele911]

www.heibar.com

Is anyone aware of these systems? I was a passenger in two 930s with this jet mist system and the torque was outrageous. I have to admit I barely understand the set-up structure but the cars pulled way harder than regular 930s ive driven.

I have no affiliation to the company other than having the pleasure of riding in the cars. Also I love the old adage "Horsepower sells cars; torque wins races

[Imcoz]

My friend designed a system for his 914 Turbo... it takes intercooling to the next level, unleashing a cooler burn which Turbo charged cylinders crave.

[tsuter]

I installed TB water injection over 20 years ago... then quickly put gas in the reservoir. Then just as quickly got rid of the reservoir and plumbed the fuel line to the injector.
And never looked back.
Now water misting to cool the intercooler...that's another story.

[porschett]

Hey tsuter...u saying you're using gas instead of water for your water injection?

Did mine for $150 or so...kicked on when boost reached what ever you want to adjust it to. Mine kicked on at .5 bar. 50/50 water/alcohol. Sprayed some on my arms...that stuff really cools.

Wired my highbeam indicator (little blue light on the speedo) to the pump so I know when the pump is on.

No more knocks at higher boost.

[KobaltBlau]

The heat of vaporization of water is huge, so water injection acts as a temporary super-intercooler. My friend's grandfather hit the water injection on his supercharged (they all are) WWII corsair once to avoid going into the drink off the edge of the carrier. I believe this kicked the blower drive into another stage, there was a wire over the water injection throttle stop voiding warranty. This twisted the frame of the corsair and his airplane was replaced with a new one. that's the story anyway.



BTW this heat of vaporization of water is the same reason the "rubbermaid solution" for 911 engine cooling is so effective.

[TerryH]

Don't many 930's run a 7th injector with alcohol? Pretty common on some turbo cars. You can gain a lot of boost without knock.

You just don't want to run out of alcohol during a high boost run.

[Emission]

Originally posted by KobaltBlau
"...I believe this kicked the blower drive into another stage, there was a wire over the water injection throttle stop voiding warranty."

Warranty on a Vought F4U Corsair? Cool.

[KobaltBlau]

Originally posted by Emission
Warranty on a Vought F4U Corsair? Cool.

That's what he said, as long as the water injection and its blower stage were not used the navy would have had to eat that one.

[Britain Smith]

That system is very pricey.

I plan on running this system...

Aquamist



-Britain

[tsuter]

Originally posted by porschett
Hey tsuter...u saying you're using gas instead of water for your water injection?

Yes, I run a seventh injector. It is triggered at 3.0psi with a Hobbs pressure switch but can be set wherever you want it. These were originally called Callaway Microfuelers.
The bump is about 35HP. You won't get that with water.

[rsrfan]

tsuter,
How long have you been running the 7th injector. Reason being, I scored a brand new Calloway microfueler(never installed sitting on shelf since 1985) that I am thinking about plumbing into my 930 at the back of the intercooler just before the throttle body. Problem is that there is a lot of talk about hot spots in the cyinders that develop and i don't want to melt my pistons. I originally got the idea from BA's book but modern turbo gurus are saying this in antiquated technology. For what it is worth, I will not exceed 1 bar and was looking at the cooling effect of the spray as much as the additional fueling.

JP

[911pcars]

Gasoline can be used as an anti-detonation fluid too. Just increase the A/F ratio. However, excessive fuel can wash the lube off the cylinder walls (NG). Methanol and water is also used. Water by itself is not a fuel, but like any anti-detonation medium, allows one to bump the C.R., ignition timing and/or boost pressure X amount while reducing the typical ill-effect tendencies.

The system shown looks like a model-specific adaptation of the British-built ERL-Aqua Mist system shown on Britain's post. Aqua Mist has been around awhile and have a good product.

Tsuter,
Have you measured the A/F ratio from cylinder-to-cylinder as supplied by the 7th injector? I have some reservations whether a single injector can provide an equal amount of fuel to all cylinders. Just wondering.

Sherwood
This is my system for external cooling.

[tsuter]

My CR is 8.5:1 vs 7.0:1 or 7.5 for the factory turbo so the extra fuel at boost is very important.

The seventh injector is located forward of the throttle body in the turbo outlet pipe so it has plenty of room to mix so I don't see any reason why it would not be distributed to all six cylinders.

The AF on the dyno has a single step .... obviously as this is single stage enrichment. Its on or off at 3.0psi.

Is it sophisticated? No. I have two other vehicles that I have to hook up the laptop and reload the EPROM with fuel and ignition tables but the SC is 100% period mechanical and it's staying that way. By choice.

I've had the seventh injector enrichment with the turbo for over 20 years of the 26 years I've owned the car. Many different techniques, injectors and locations over the years.

I built the turbo kit while the car was still on factory warranty!!

[rsrfan]

Cool. 20 years of hard driving I am sure.

JP

[tobluforu]

I have the aquamist on my 88 Saab turbo and have it for years now. Car has over 220,000 miles on it and was dynoed at 267hp.
Stock boost WAS around 12.5 psi, now I easily hit 20 psi. Take water out of pic and 16.5 is the max with the mods that my car has. It's very easy on a car that has a factory installed APC to see if this system works or not. In other words once a tad bit of knock is sensed it kicks back boost. Does water injection work? Hell yes it does. I also have a supercharged viper in my garage and 75 percent of the guys running SC's or turbo's are installing water injection and increasing hp by 50-100 depending on the setup.
Spraying IC is also a great idea as well. Seine systems makes a great unit for this, or take the cheapest aquamist system and set that up to spray the IC

[mark '87 930]

Will spraying the intercooler give you almost as much gain (especially on hot days)? Also, can spraying the intercooler be done even on a stock setup?
I prefer to be able to disassemble the system if possible (return back to stock).

[911pcars]

Originally posted by mark '87 930
Will spraying the intercooler give you almost as much gain (especially on hot days)? Also, can spraying the intercooler be done even on a stock setup?
I prefer to be able to disassemble the system if possible (return back to stock).

Mark,
Speaking objectively (as much as possible), water injection is a more effective method of preventing detonation. That said, it is also more involved in setting up. Determining the proper spray volume, installation of nozzle(s) and cost of an Aquamist is no small matter; likewise optimizing the engine to take advantage of such a system. Removing a water injection kit should only leave a small hole where the nozzle was installed. However, returning support systems back to stock depends on the extent of engine mods to take advantage of suppressed detonation (fuel, spark lead, compression ratio, boost pressure, etc.).

By comparison, external water spraying, while not as effective as direct water injection, is less intrusive while also able to increase intercooler efficiency by reducing underhood air temperatures and heat soak symptoms. For example, Subaru supplies their WRX intercoolers with an external water spray system for an extra measure of cooling.

On an air-cooled engine, lowering the air temperature to the intercooler also lowers the air temperature cooling the engine.

Sherwood
Seine Systems