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Headlight problem after rewiring with relays

After receiving lots of help from many on this board and Daniel Stern, I just finished my H4/ twin relay set-up. Now I have a problem that I think is easy to fix, but just can't figure out.

With my fog lamps OFF the high/low beams work perfectly. With the fog lamps ON the low beams work fine, but the high beam will not turn off unless the fog lamps are turned off. With the fogs on it will go from low to high fine, but it keeps the highs on when you pull back on the stalk and engage the low beams. That makes for alot of light!

I used Jadams1 wiring diagram, but since my car is an '88, I used fuses 1,2,3,4 from the 2nd fuses panel.



There are two other wires in the no. 1 fuse position with my new high beam wire. One is for the high beam indicator on the dash. Could the other be my problem?

Thank you for your time.
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Old 04-03-2006, 05:55 PM
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There shouldn't be a problem there if it wasn't present before you did your relay upgrade. It sounds like your high beam relay isn't de-energizing when you release the high beam stalk switch.

There are differing opinions on these relay upgrades. I installed a six-relay (yes, 6) setup that isolates all six filaments (L&R hi, L&R lo, & fogs) that I am extremely pleased with. A two relay setup runs all the current from both high beam filaments through one set of relay contacts. If you have high wattage bulbs, this can be quite a bit of current for one relay to handle.

See the thread below for some ideas on wiring and relay setups.

Headlight Relay thread
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Old 04-03-2006, 07:25 PM
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Weaver,
Try removing the suspect wire from the #1 fuse. Bentley shows only the wire to the high beam indicator.
If you wired as the schematic shows, there is a redundant control feed from both fuse #1 and #2.
Check #2 fuse as well for extra wires.
Somehow control voltage from the fog switch is getting into fuse #1 or #2.
From what I see, you only need one wire to pin 86 to control the high beam relay.
Same thing for the low beam relay.
Apparently rather than removing the extra wire with the relay kit, someone decided to just "park" the extra wire on both relays.
No harm unless other circuits have been added and not shown.
You could prove all this by just removing either #1 or #2 fuse.
The circuit should work fine with with just one fuse and it will eliminate other suspect wires.
I'd do the same with the low beam circuit. There is no point in running two fuses in parallel. One fuse provides the circuit protection. Two could actually cause problems.
My suspicion is the extra wire.
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Old 04-03-2006, 09:31 PM
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I think they're supposed to do that though. The fogs come on during the low beam operation only.

Plug the fog lamps somewhere else. A lot guys run a seperate circuit for the fogs to prevent these things. This way you can use the fogs anytime you want and not dependent on the hi/lo stalk.

I simply moved the fog hot to another spot.

Hey that rhymed.
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Last edited by emcdan; 04-04-2006 at 08:28 AM..
Old 04-04-2006, 08:25 AM
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Can someone post the Bently headlight schematic for an 88 Carrera. Thanks!
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Old 04-04-2006, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZOANAS
There are differing opinions on these relay upgrades. I installed a six-relay (yes, 6) setup that isolates all six filaments (L&R hi, L&R lo, & fogs) that I am extremely pleased with.
ZOANAS, like his avatar, has a penchant for excess!
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:17 AM
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I dug thru some old Pano's and found some info for you. On the 87-89 Carrera's it appears that the foglight relay, pin 30 was fed from fuse number 2. It left the relay on pin 87 and was fused again [fuse 8 ] before it made it to the foglights.

In a second Alan Cardwell article [sept 2002]. He has a schematic posted with a two relay set up on an 86-89 car. Some observations, he states.." In the original wiring setup, there is a single white wire (56a) and a single yellow wire ( 56b) coming from the dimmer switch that feed the left and right headlights thru fuses 1 & 2 (56a) on the high beam side and fuses 3 and 4 (56b) on the low beam. " I'll get back to this info.

Next, I pulled myself away from Zoanas avatar and looked at a schematic he posted on the other thread. Something puzzles me about it..and looks like your problem. Notice the purple jumper between fuse 2 and fuse 8..I don't like that. If you turn on the foglight switch you are sending power to the relay coils.



When I did my 2 relay setup I used two of the wires from the fuse panel like the Caldwell setup. In the drawing you posted I would just use the yellow and the blue..although I think for your year its white for the highs and Yellow for the lows. I would move the high beam indicator wire to be with the solid white wire. Then I would make sure that there wasn't a jumper from fuse 8 back to fuse 2.
Geez, a real schematic would make this easy...also one of YOUR wiring too.
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:22 PM
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Old 04-04-2006, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mysterytrain
Next, I pulled myself away from Zoanas avatar and looked at a schematic he posted on the other thread. Something puzzles me about it..and looks like your problem. Notice the purple jumper between fuse 2 and fuse 8..I don't like that. If you turn on the foglight switch you are sending power to the relay coils.
This was an addition I made which allows my high beams and fogs (Hella 450 driving lights) to come on with the flashers. It is spectacular to witness.
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Old 04-04-2006, 05:06 PM
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After looking at my #1 fuse last night the white/blue wire is there (high beam indicator) and a white/brown wire. The white/brown wire is not in my Bentley schematic.

I think emcdan misunderstood me. I know the fogs turn off with the highs. But when I go back to the lows, the fogs turn back on, the lows turn on, and the high stay on.

If anyone knows what this white/brown wire is doing in my #1 high beam fuse position, that would be great.

Thanks
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:57 AM
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Brown/White wire???? That colored wire typically means that that it goes to ground after a switch. Example would be a door open light switch.

Also, the diagram shows there are two sources of +12 VDC to pin #86 on each relay. Only one is needed.

Anyway, the diagram from 2.7racer shows that the high beam is 1&2. Lows are 3&4. They are numbered in oder from 1,2,3,4 (R to L). Yours are wired according to your drawing 5,6,7,8. However, they are in order of 7,5,8,6. Try disconnecting the all the wires on the fuse pannel that go to the relay (Leave the hot side connected). Figure out which ones are hot (+12VDC) when the lights switch is low and which ones are hot with the light switch is on high. Then send only one wire to the pin 86 of each relay.
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Old 04-05-2006, 02:51 AM
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Well that seems to make more sense..white/brown! That has to be the feed for the foglight relay. remove that wire and ohm it out..one clip lead on the end you removed and place the other meter lead in the pin 30 socket of the foglight relay..if you have continuity then that is indeed the power to the fogs and what is screwing you up.
It also appears that by the time the carrera's where made that the fuse order and placement had changed. Maybe someone can post the foglight circuit.
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Old 04-05-2006, 05:30 AM
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Weaver..are you sure the system was working correctly before the relay install? I found this old thread..sounds like your dimmer switch might have taken a dump.
How are the fog lights supposed to work on a Carrera 3.2...
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Old 04-05-2006, 11:14 AM
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used this last year workds great

I could not find my color coded diagram but this should help. I used 5 round relays and 1 existing square. I used a separate fused batter feed to each headlamp and one common to the fogs.
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Old 04-05-2006, 05:55 PM
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Thank you for everyones relies.

Mysterytrain: Both my headlight switch and high/low/turn stalk were replaces two years ago, or sadly 2000 miles ago.
This is the strangest thing. With the fog light switch off, the highs and lows work perfectly. With the fog switch on, the fogs are on with the lows. Hit the highs and fogs turn off and the highs turn on. Go back to the lows and the fogs turn on, the lows turn on, and the highs STAY on.

Tonight I'm going to track down what that white/brown wire in the #1 fuse with my high beam is. I can not find it in any of my schamatics, but I hope it controls the fogs.

Thanks
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:26 PM
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Try removing the brown white wire that connects to fuse #1.
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Old 04-06-2006, 01:50 PM
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Weaver, it sounds like that brown and white wire is suppling residual voltage to the high beam relay when the fog lights are tuned off. As suggested, try removing the brown white wire that connects to fuse #1 and see if it is supplying 12 volts. It doesn't take a lot of current to pull in the relays. Maybe the fog light switch is the problem, not enough current to keep the fogs on but enough current to keep the relay pulled in?
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Old 04-07-2006, 05:11 AM
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Is it fixed?
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Old 04-08-2006, 12:26 PM
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Please excuse me for coming in late ( and horrors...not reading ALL the responses)...but be advised that USA delivered 911's...at least the mid 80's Carreras..function exactly in this way....

- fogs come on only when low beams are on...and will go off when you engage high beams. fogs ( oddly) can't come on by themselves.

You can move one power supply wire for the fogs..and have them be triggered by the parking light circuit instead. That way, the fogs are on/off independently of the hi/low main beams. To do this, you move one grey wire to a post alongside...don't have the schematic in front of me but I know this was in a thread elsewhere. In summary...this is something wired this way from the factory and may have nothing to do with the new headlight relays installed.

EDIT---> see here for more, especially the last response---> How are the fog lights supposed to work on a Carrera 3.2...
-Wil
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Last edited by Wil Ferch; 04-09-2006 at 02:46 PM..
Old 04-09-2006, 09:53 AM
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Yes! Its fixed. I want to thank everyone for their replies.

I think a whole lot of people did not understand my problem. Probably because I was not explaining it correctly. I know that the fogs only come on with the low beams only, I have no problem with that. My ML500, 5 series and Vw Corrado are all set up like that. My issue was that when I would change from high beams to low beams, the high beam bulbs would stay on. So I would have both highs and lows on at the same time. Switching back to highs would turn off the lows, but nothing would turn off the high beams until I would push the fog lamp switch in, or the off position. Anyway, I had a whole lot of light going on.

The fix? On my 7/87 built '88 Carrera I had a white/brown wire connected to the white/blue wire which is the high beam indicator. These wires were located in the #1 fuses position, #2 block, which is one of the high beams. This white/brown wire turned out to pin out to the #85 position on the fog light relay. 85 is the ground for the relay, so I assume when the highs are on the ground to the relay is broken and the relay shuts off. An easy way for Porsche make the fogs DOT legal. I think that wire was keeping the new high beam relay energized when the lows were on. So I took the white/brown wire and ran it to the fuse panel ground lug on the chassis, and now everything works perfectly. Highs and lows work fine and most importantly, independent of each other. The fogs now come on with the headights, either low or high. I probable will not used them now that I have H4s!

Sorry about the long post. Thanks again for everyones help.

Jadams1, thank you very much for all of your help and emails and wiring diagram!
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Old 04-12-2006, 09:00 AM
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