I use to have the same issues with mine as Dan does. The cars been to the shop on a couple of occations to get the problem fixed. The problem has been fixed, and mine starts up like a champ. BUT.,.,., I still have this one issue thats driving me up the wall.And it doesent matter how many times I take it back to the shop. It will run great for the first couple of days, then goes to schit.My happy point 4000-6000 rpm sputters, backfires, and drives me insain. I'm going to assume it has to be a fuel issue, since the shop checked all of the other known causes. Any Idea's guys and or girls ?

And if somebody else has a Bentley manual for sale, I'd buy one.

thanks

Your problem possibly could be more related to ignition than fuel delivery. If you have a timing light, check to see if your engine's timing is advancing properly at your "happy point." In any case, work deliberately and with forethought in your checking and diagnosing. This is where Bentley and other references are helpful.

Here's what I have found:
The setup here on Pelican is stated to be the same as the factory setup and runs $198 for what looks like a T arrangement with three hoses, a gauge, a shutoff valve, some adapters and instructions. I'd like to support our host and will if the product is superior.

JC Whitney has a similar appearing setup - though of course I can't tell anything about the quality - for $57.99. This setup is said to be specifically for CIS K Jetronic. Has an "in line 2-1/2" guage, shutoff valve and 6 adapters, schematics and instructions".

Harbor Freight has a setup for $79.99 that claims to be for testing ALL types of fuel injection systems, has a lot of adapters, a lot of hoses and several gauges and comes with a plastic case, etc. I like the idea of future usefulness of this setup They also have a little setup for $13.99 that specifically says it is not for Bosche, CIS Jetronic or GM TBI systems. So I can discount that one immediately.

Opinions?

Okay, so what was the fix? What is on the receipt? Enquiring minds want to know!;)

When I get hometonight, I'll put it out of the file, and post what is on it.

I have the J.C. Whitney set-up. No complaints, works fine and the price was right. I like Pelican Parts, too, but I like keeping money in my pocket when I can.

Dan, yet another option is to do a Tim "MacGyver" Hancock and make your own gauge set. :)

When it was in the shop the last time, (about a month ago), the replaced the points, and did a tune up on it. The car ran like new the first couple of days, but then went down hill. I'd like to know what would cause it to do that. Why would the timing go out that fast ?

Do you actually have to run the engine to test leak down?
I have a 91 Turbo and removing/replacing the IC takes a bit of time. I can't start the engine without it. Putting in the tester, replacing the IC, starting the engine, removing the IC, removing the tester, replacing the IC is a PITA.

If it is an ignition problem - and I suspect it is - it is either something mundane like an ignition wire or a plug that fails at high loads or possibly the distributor itself.

In the case of my car, it ran poorly and I was convinced it had seen better days. A full tuneup was done on it, including factory wires, valve adjust, rebuilt fuel distributor and a new ignition distributor and the car runs awesome....well, except for those relatively minor starting concerns.

1982911SCTarga, I'm no MacGyver so I think I'll buy a setup. My big question on the JC Whitney setup, Do you get instruction and diagrams that are worth a damn? Or wil I have to stumble around trying ti figure out where to make connestions and how to actually perform the tests?

Dan, you get rudimentary instructions regarding which adapter to use, etc., and a chart showing ambient temps and control pressures. I wouldn't advise relying on that chart because it's unclear which year it refers to. Bentley is important in this regard because the chart varies slightly from year to year.

loot87, you don't have to run the engine to check your system and cold control pressures. However, depending on what your specific issue might be, you might at some point need to run the engine with the gauge connected to check your warm control pressure.

Brian

Actually, I should have said that you don't run the engine to check system and cold control pressures. Just trying to be accurate.

Brian

Because the shop that replaced the points didn't put a dab of grease on the distributor cam lobe and the nylon points rider wore down so the points closed up? Check the points gap again,

ianc

ianc -I think he said somewhere above that the car had this problem before the most recent tuneup work, that it ran great for awhile after the tuneup work, but that the problem has recurred. So that would tell me it isn't likely to be the ponts, though of course they should be checked.

Points could have needed replacement before tuneup. They're a wear item.

So whatever they did fixed it, but then something wore again, which would be the failure mode if they forgot to lube the points and the rider wore down. It doesn't take too long for them to close up again if you forget to do this. Definitely worth checking...

ianc

911STarga,

Wat CDI do you have? If it's a newer Permatune, a search will reveal many stories about ignition related problems caused by these units when they get hot.

Were your wires changed? If not, check their resistance, especially when the engine is hot. Also make sure their connections, both internally and on the plug, are tight.

Were your cap and rotor changed? If not, check these too, for resistance, cracks, carbon tracks, and make sure the rev limiter moves freely. Make sure the dizzy rotates freely and advances correctly.

Check the coil and coil connections. I recently had some breaking up @ highway speeds once warmed up. Turns out a coil wire was almost cut completely through during the connector crimping process, apparently @ the MSD factory.

As others have mentioned, check your warm control pressure w/ your new gauge. And, as always w/ CIS, check for air leaks.

Which was the last line of my comment.:rolleyes:

This was also part of your last line, and I think it quite likely that it could be the points for the reasons I described,

ianc

As ianc says, the points rub block can wear down quickly if not greased. Also the points can slip if the screw is not tightened correctly or has gotten loose.

This could be the problem. I pulled the cap off last night, and looked inside.Seems that when the points are spinning, they are hitting the inside of the cap on two of the pins. 4 of the pins looked like clean copper, but 2 had the orange/red color as if the points were dragging on those two.

Forgive me guys, I'm a little retarded when it comes to tuning a car. How do I check the points gap ? I'm sure I have a tool in my tool box for this.,.,but what does it look like ?



True. Once it goes into the shop, and comes out, it runs great, for maybe 2 days, then, it back to the after 4000 rpm puke fest

But, they shouldnt be wearing in two days.

What type of lube is needed, and where would I apply this lube ?

From the looks of it, it seems to be the premature that was in the car, when the car was painted back in 84.

No they werent. They are the same wires that were on the car when I got it, about 4 years ago, and I have no idea when they were replaced before then.

Again, when I get home tonight from work, I'll pull the recent paper work, too see if the cap and rotor were replaced, I just cant remember right now (VERY, VERY long hard day at work today). I'll have to look up some pics to see what the rev limiter looks like, and the dizzy ??? ( is that what the points live in ?)

The coil, again, has been in the car longer then Ive owned it. So its hard to say how old it is. I planned on going thru the couple of decades of paper work my dad had on the car for all of the service done to it, to see the age of the parts.

I had them check the WUR, and checked for air leaks, they said it was all ok.

Ive been working up the courage to get into all of this myself, just was always worried that I would screw something up, because this is the first time in my life Ive had to mess around with this type of stuff, and being inexperienced, didnt want to create a bigger problem.

Heres a pic of the engine.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...A/HPIM0020.jpg
As you can see, I have the plug wires that have some sort of silver mesh type material wrapped around them.

I could take pictures of everything, the CD, the points, the cap, the rotor, wires, etc.

Here's whats on the invoice Dan


Job4 Engine Idle / Running Problems.
Labor $340.00

The engine starts a little hard when cold. Does not want to take any throttle until it runs for a few minutes. Idle is not stable when warmed up. The tachometer is erratic at times.

Check dwell, replace points if required, check timing, fuel pressures, adjust cold pressures as needed. Adjust CO% etc, as needed. Remove warm up regulator and adjust pressures from .5 bar to 1.5 bar.

Removed spark plugs. Cleaned and set gap. Replaced the points in the distributor. Replaced air filter.

Parts used:
Points-n
Air Filter