Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > Porsche 911 Technical Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Hendog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,207
Garage
Valve adjust: .004 blade thickness.

Valves have been adjusted previously but this is my firt time doing it myself; I'm taking all the time in the world. I've read many posts on the subject. Wil Ferch and Superman speak of the varying feeler blade thickness measured on the 0.004 blades in this thread (0.0042 to 0.0046)
Tappet adjustment using thread pitch Also, given that the exact desired measurement is 0.0039 should I then tighten my adjustment screw so that the blade is difficult to remove and ever more diffcult to re-insert? Shoul I lean in that direction rather than have the blade slip in and out with simple drag?
__________________
Henri
'87 Carrera coupe: Venetian blue
Old 04-22-2006, 06:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Information Junky
 
island911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: an island, upper left coast, USA
Posts: 49,998
Lean toward tight.

The tolerance is +/- .002. !!!!! . .. But, they will rattle with a loose .004 (~.005)

(engine tol. is .002 . . not gage tol.)
__________________
Everyone you meet knows something you don't. - - - and a whole bunch of crap that is wrong.
Disclaimer: the above was 2 worth.
More information is available as my professional opinion, which is provided for an exorbitant fee.
Old 04-22-2006, 07:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Hendog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,207
Garage
Wow, that seems like a lot of tolerance! That would mean anything between .002-.006 falls within. Am I reading you right? I'm on my second cylinder (doing left first). I'm leaning towards tight as you said. Thanks Island.
__________________
Henri
'87 Carrera coupe: Venetian blue
Old 04-22-2006, 08:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Posts: 1,326
Henri,
When you are done with the struggle adjusting try this method to check your work.
Where the rocker rides the cam, opposite from the elephant foot/valve, the correct gap will be .00285". Thats two point eight five thousandths.
So what does this mean?
It means you can check for too much gap with a .003" feeler.
If the .003" feeler slides in, the gap is over .0042"
If it doesn't slide in, it shouldn't, check with a .0025" feeler for too tight.
The .0025" feeler should slide in. If not the gap at the elephant foot is under .004" Actually under .0035"
You don't need a special tool. Just use a regular feeler gauge set.
The nice part is the feeler is guided into the gap between the rocker and cam. No square edges as found at the elephant foot/valve.
Once you have done this you will learn to adjust only the valves that need adjusting.
Restated, the .003" is the over gauge and the .0025" is the under gauge.
Simple.
__________________
DOUG
'76 911S 2.7, webers, solex cams, JE pistons, '74 exhaust, 23 & 28 torsion bars, 930 calipers & rotors, Hoosiers on 8's & 9's.
'85 911 Carrera, stock, just painted, Orient Red
Old 04-22-2006, 08:30 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
D troop 3/5 CAV ,162 AHC
 
afterburn 549's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Army, Retrograded
Posts: 12,729
You have to learn how to angle your feeler gauge so as to to induce false drag, in the end you will want to "feel" a very tight drag as you slide it side to side or back and forth......warning! if you pull it all the way out you will not get it to go back in (if done correct) ....... and also I bend more of a angle in the tool to help achieve proper angle
Old 04-22-2006, 08:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Hendog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,207
Garage
Doug, I read about that method and gave it a quick try. I haven't got the hang of getting the .002 and .003 in there because of the angle at which I have to come at it. I've just finished the left side and am ready to tace the covers off the right. I think I'm getting close to beer time though. I'm determined to master the two techniques yet so as to have as near a perfect adjustment as the two methods offer.

Afterburn, I am allowing the feeler to get back in, but it takes a lot of work to get it in there; that's where I'm setting it; it's tight. And yes, I'm adding a bend to the P213 tool. It needs it only because it's not an Island tool but only wishes it were.
__________________
Henri
'87 Carrera coupe: Venetian blue

Last edited by Hendog; 04-22-2006 at 08:54 PM..
Old 04-22-2006, 08:51 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico
Posts: 1,326
Henri,
A .0025" is better than a .002" if you have one.
Save yourself some work and check with the over (.003")and under (.0025"), before you adjust.
__________________
DOUG
'76 911S 2.7, webers, solex cams, JE pistons, '74 exhaust, 23 & 28 torsion bars, 930 calipers & rotors, Hoosiers on 8's & 9's.
'85 911 Carrera, stock, just painted, Orient Red
Old 04-22-2006, 09:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
captainrb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sun Valley Idaho
Posts: 91
island 911 how about answering questions about the avaliabilty of your special valve adjustment tool. Whats up !!!
__________________
More is better and too much is JUST enough
Old 04-23-2006, 08:46 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: louisiana
Posts: 1,481
I've just checked mine with 2.7racer's method, far and away the easiest, I can't believe I didn't think about this before. ALL of mine were consistently/uniformly loose.
Fuch that P21 tool
Old 04-23-2006, 10:36 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Hendog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Coquitlam, BC
Posts: 1,207
Garage
This thread is where Doug lays out ALL the information on rocker/cam lobe measurement. Book mark it. valve adjustment

I'm continuing my adjustment this afternoon. I've picked up on cylinder #3 using Dougs method to check my work from last night. .003 doesn't go in but .0025 does. What a great way to measure! The P213 tool will just collect dust from now on. I'm now going to go back to #1 and recheck with the "Cam-Lobe la Doug" method. It would merit a write up in one of the tech articles.
__________________
Henri
'87 Carrera coupe: Venetian blue
Old 04-23-2006, 12:09 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
diabolos88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 570
I appreciate all these tidbits as I will embark on my valve adj this week.
Old 04-23-2006, 02:44 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Wer bremst verliert
 
JohnJL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,728
Why is it again that people use the feeler gauges rather than a dial indicator? The dial indicator on a z-block bolts right to the housing and with it bolted in place would seem to give a more accurate, repeatable measurement as you "rock" the rocker back and forth and observe the measurement.
__________________
2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy
1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 04-23-2006, 03:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Westchester County NY
Posts: 475
Hello Island911, I've sent a few e-mails trying to purchase two of your tools, are there any still available? Thanks, Johnny O
Old 04-23-2006, 03:54 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Nine9six's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 2,791
Garage
Quote:
Originally posted by JohnJL
Why is it again that people use the feeler gauges rather than a dial indicator? The dial indicator on a z-block bolts right to the housing and with it bolted in place would seem to give a more accurate, repeatable measurement as you "rock" the rocker back and forth and observe the measurement.
Cause feeler gages are less expensive, and not all people have .0001" graduated dial indicators. Besides, even the .0001" graduated indicators have a repeatibility of .0002.
In the hands of someone who has some mechanical ability and done a few valve adjusts, I'd put my money on the feeler gage adjusted valves for repeatability.
__________________
If it flows, it goes. If its smooth, it moves. Any questions?
96 993 C2 (Current)
87 911 Factory Turbo-Look Cab (Sold)
85 911 Factory Turbo-Look Targa (Gone)

Last edited by Nine9six; 04-23-2006 at 07:10 PM..
Old 04-23-2006, 07:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Wer bremst verliert
 
JohnJL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 4,728
Ok, I guess it just seems to me the art of bending that guage in there and the gradual wear on the feeler would lead to some changes over time. I can get consistent, repeatable results with the dial indicator bolted to the housing. I've verified it periodically by positioning the gauge and making a measurement, then loosening and moving the guage out of the way, making no changes to the valve, and repositioning the gauge. I get the same measurement every time.

This is with the engine out of the car though, I've not attempted to use the dial indicator with the engine in situ.
__________________
2007 911 Turbo - Not a toy
1985 911 Cab - Wife's toy
1982 911 3.2 Indiash Rot Track Supercharged track toy
1978 911 3.0 Lichtbau toy "Gretchen"
1971 911 Targa S backroad toy
Old 04-24-2006, 07:39 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
oneblueyedog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Sugar Land, TX
Posts: 989
Garage
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hendog
[B]This thread is where Doug lays out ALL the information on rocker/cam lobe measurement. Book mark it. valve adjustment

And I just bought some new blades for my P-tool. DANG.

BTW I set my valve lash to a very heavy drag side to side. The blade will kink and go useless if I push in and out. Of course I loosen the adjusters to get the blade in.

I'll now check the lobes first to see what I have before I start.

Does the feeler Gage risk sratching the lobes of the cam?
__________________
78SC coupe, Silver Metallic

Last edited by oneblueyedog; 04-24-2006 at 09:16 PM..
Old 04-24-2006, 08:58 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
84toy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 666
I'm sure some will think I am nuts....Being a machinist all my life and being used to small tolerances, I do my valves by "feel" I set the first one by the gage and feel the "motion" at the rocker. I adjust the others to the same motion. The difference a couple of thousands (or even one) makes is VERY noticeable. When I double check, they are always spot on.

Now if you are not used to feeler gages and small tolerances, don't do this. Those that are experienced in this should try it and double check your work the first time. You will be really surprised how close you will be. The time saving is not minutes but hours.

I also take a remote starter under the car with me so I only have to go under once.
__________________
Paul S
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it"
Old 04-24-2006, 10:26 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Orchard Park, NY
Posts: 10,522
Seeing the valve adjustment bolt is 8mm x 1mm pitch...too bad we can't get a device that precisely opens the adjustment nut 36 degrees ( or so) from closed.

Target is 0.1 mm gap. One complete 360 degree rotation is 1mm. We want 1/10 this or 1/10 of a full "rotation" .

Too bad it wasn't 45 degrees !!!

- Wil
__________________
Wil Ferch
85 Carrera ( gone, but not forgotten )
Old 04-25-2006, 08:55 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
bigrubberjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Corona, CA
Posts: 3,340
Quote:
Originally posted by 84toy
I'm sure some will think I am nuts....Being a machinist all my life and being used to small tolerances, I do my valves by "feel" I set the first one by the gage and feel the "motion" at the rocker. I adjust the others to the same motion. The difference a couple of thousands (or even one) makes is VERY noticeable. When I double check, they are always spot on.

Now if you are not used to feeler gages and small tolerances, don't do this. Those that are experienced in this should try it and double check your work the first time. You will be really surprised how close you will be. The time saving is not minutes but hours.

I also take a remote starter under the car with me so I only have to go under once.
I got flamed the last time I mentioned about my mechanic doing it this way.

I had seen a few mechanics in my time do it this way, just on my car till the last time it was done.
__________________
85 911 SuperSport
No more looking! The jewel is mine!
89 Jeep Wrangler
A jewel in the rough
2000 Grand Cherokee
Family Wagon with Jewels on board
Old 04-25-2006, 09:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
84toy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 666
Yeah, I understand people flaming the issue. If you work with machine fits all your life (micrometers, dial indicaters, etc.), it's really easy. You have to be really comfortable with fits and tolerances. Not for the first timer for sure.

The test: Set one valve at .004, one at .002 and one at .006. Do the motion test. If you can't easily tell a huge difference, have someone else adjust them, or use a feeler gage. If nothinig else, get familiar with how much motion .004 has to check your work..
__________________
Paul S
"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it"
Old 04-25-2006, 09:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:59 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.