I just stumbled across this thread. I thought I felt my ears burning. :) Oh, and thanks for the plug, RarlyL8.

Jim Williams is correct. The 112 WUR is for the 911 Turbo (engine 930.66) from 1983 thru 86. I am not sure how well it would work on an SC, as there is no provision for vacuum -- only manifold pressure (boost). This is what the factory refers to as "full load enrichment".

Here are the specs, taken directly from the 911 Turbo factory service manual:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1146535949.jpg

I just went back and looked at the charts that 125shifter posted. It appears as though the 072 WUR does not have an enrichment circuit like the earlier SC WURs. If that is the case, the 112 WUR should work just fine, with the enrichment fitting being unused.

Hope that helps,

Hello
It is not my meaning to hijack this thread but as there are lots of WUR charts being posted, Does anyone have the specifications for WUR 911 606 105 09 Bosch # is 0 348 140 089.
For a Euro sc 1982.

Thanks in anticipation.

Jim/Brian, that is the same 112 graph found in my 930 factory manual that I refered to early on. You will notice on all these graphs that the spec ranges overlap. Theoretically the basic functions are all the same. What I have seen with my engine is that you need to adjust each component to hit the middle of spec OR adjust other components to compensate. You can really get things out of whack in a complicated system such as the 930/63 California motor. Minimalistic CIS is a real blessing in these older motors with old components if you can get away with it in your state.

It's also easy, IMHO, to get things out of whack when one goes to substituting and "adjusting" components to make up for the shortfalls of other components that aren't working right.

Tha factory put these components together in a system to provide the best possible performance for a given engine. But folks are always trying to either improve on what the factory did, or simply to make do when they either can't find, or don't want to spring for, the right part.

Mark,

I don't have the graph for an 089 scanned to post, but here are the pertinent data:
at 10degC, pressure is 1.2 bar
at 40degC, pressure is 3.0 bar.

At vacuum, warm pressure is 3.6 Bar. (Vacuum level is a nominal 380 mmHg.)

These are at the standard tolerance of (+/-) 0.2 bar.

Ok, just to help clear things up. If you order a new WUR for a 78SC you would use the Porsche part number which is 911-606-105-09 what you get is a new part with a bosch number of 0 -438-140-089. The original bosch number for a 78 WUR is 0-438-140-045. I ran into this problem two years ago when I ordered a new one from Pelican. I was stuck with not knowing what cold pressure setting was correct for the new WUR..actually I think I'm still not totally correct and my CP is a bit rich.
10 degree C spec for the 045 [1978SC] is between 1.6 & 2.0 bar
10 degree C spec for the 069 [1979SC] is between 1.1 & 1.5 bar
10 degree C spec for the 072 [1980SC] is between 1.5 & 2.0 bar
40 degree C spec for the 045 [1978SC] is between 2.8 & 3.2 bar
40 degree C spec for the 069 [1979SC] is between 3.0 & 3.5 bar
40 degree C spec for the 072 [1980SC] is between 3.2 & 3.7 bar
from Jim:
10 degree C spec for the 089 [ ????? ] is between 1.0 & 1.4 bar
40 degree C spec for the 089 [ ????? ] is between 2.8 & 3.2 bar

The 089 replacement in my 78 is at 1.4 bar. I think this is out of range for my car. It seems to like cold starts between 32 and 55 degrees or so. On the few times that I have started the car in sub freezing temps it did some wild hunting. Above 55 or 60 degrees It fires right up but stumbles for a few seconds. My feeling is that its too rich and the cold pressure needs to be raised. That 089 WUR looks a lot spec wise like the 069 for the 79SC!

So when you say minimalistic, what parts can you remove? Here in Wisconsin I do not have to worry about everything being there on my car as far as emissions inspections due to the age and type of registration I have. I have done similar on older VW's with CIS, but this system seems to have a lot more stuff to begin with!

I have been considering going minimalist with everything - nix the ac and cruise, backdate heat But that will have to wait until I get the CIs sorted out. I am getting close, I can feel it.

And thanks again to everybody for their input. I will have to print that page and stick it in my bentley manual.

Brendon, I think the warmer the climate the more you can go minimal.

The only components you MUST HAVE are the Fuel Head and Warm Up Regulator. For faster cold starts you need the Cold Start Injector and for a cold climate you may want the Auxiliary Air Regulator. That's it. Most of those switches and valves can go away.
There are a few books out there that define these components. Jim has a nice collection of information on his Rennlist site as well. You can methodically begin removing components after you figure out what function these gadgets serve in your application. Most are simply for smog, some (such as the AAR) are just for convenience. My engine had 3 devices that increased idle!
The picture below shows my 930 engine in Alabama trim with only the Fuel Head, WUR, and CSV. When I lived in Illinois I left on the AAR. The engine runs fine given that all these components are 28 years old!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1146622802.jpg

Ron,

The 089 was used on the 1981 - 1983 Euro 911s, and not on any of the US cars as far as I know.

The 069 was used on the 1980 Euro 911s and not on any of the US cars, again, as far as I know. The 045 was used on both the 1978 and 1979 US 911s, although the Factory manual does show a 069 halfway through the 1979 production run. I think this applies to the Euro 1979 cars only.

Brendon,

I posted on another thread my feelings about what could be removed from the CIS.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/279329-can-you-delete-r.html

All,

There is a piece of data that often gets overlooked when talking about the WUR control pressures, and I'm guilty too. Most *all* the WURs for the 911 have a HOT control pressure, without vacuum, of 2.9 Bar except for the Lambda cars starting in 1980. We sometimes forget to talk about the pressure once the temperature gets out of the 40 degC range and to hot engine temperatures. This number is found in both the little spec books and the Factory manuals. The numbers higher than 2.9 Bar are with engine vacuum (pre-Lambda cars only).

Jim
Thanks very much for the info, looks like i´m a bit low on the cold control pressure 0.9 barg ( but i am using a 0-10 bar gauge and with +/- 1% accuracy i´m at the lower limit ).
One other thing i have lost the diagram showing how the vacum hoses connect to the WUR ( yes i have used the search, and come up with conflicting info )

Bosch say vacum hose on the TOP and atmospheric hose on the SIDE/BOTTOM

Porsche say vacum hose on the SIDE/BOTTOM and atmospheric hose on the TOP

So who is correct, can anyone help.

Jim, Thanks for the info. My question and I'm sure others have the same..because the 089 appears to be the 'new' replacement for the 78SC [045], to I adjust my CP to the 78 spec? That would mean that right out of the box the 089 is set too rich for a 78SC.

Mark,

Anything I were to say at this point would be a guess, as I am limited in hands-on experience mostly to the US CIS, and likewise with the written info. Between '77 and '78, the locations of the atmospheric and the vacuum connections were reversed for the US cars at least, and I don't know which configuration the 089 falls in. With some thought, there might be some checks that could be devised to determine which is which.

For example, with a pressure gauge in place in the control pressure circuit, pulling a vacuum on each WUR connection might reveal the proper ones. This would need to be done on a warm WUR, as the responses from a cold one may not be the same, at least on the ones I have checked. You would need the pressure guage, and a hand operated vacuum pump with a vacuum guage would be handy. The vacuum specified for checking control pressures is typically around 380 mm of Hg, which is about 14" of H2O I think. I don't think a vacuum of this magnitude would damage the atmospheric portion of the WUR, but the point is, on one port you would get a significant rise in control pressure, and the other, very little. Just use some caution if you decide to try this out. I don't know of any specs that address how the atmospheric port affects contol pressure. I suspect it is only there to allow the WUR to have a pressure to compare vacuum against.

Which WUR does the 089 resemble with respect to the ones on my website? Go here:
http://members.rennlist.com/jimwms/CIS/WUR_photo.html

This might give a hint as to which connection is which.

What does the warm control pressure measure?

the 089 looks just like the 045 and is sold as a replacement for the 045 here at Pelican. The top port is atmosphere and the bottom side port is the vacuum connection. It seems that the only difference is the factory settings for the CP. It looks like the second from the left [78/79].

Ron,

I can't address why Pelican would sell the 089 as a replacement for the 045. Is the 045 NLA? The 089 was used on the ROW cars, the 045 was used on the US cars. They don't have quite the same characteristics. Is this important? As I have never swapped a 089 for a 045 and tested its performance, I can't answer the question. Pelican's online catlog doesn't appear to state which Bosch model you would be buying if you ordered a WUR for the '78 - '79 911.

My guess (WAG) would be that the 089 was used on Euro cars as the richer cold start setting might be more closely matched to the climate.

Jim,
I did a google search on Bosch 0-438-140-045. I found a page with cross reference info. 0-438-140-045 has been superceded with 0-438-140-089. Go figure!
http://store.autopartsliquidations.biz/porschebosch.html

Jim.

Mystery train is right, 2nd from the left in your pic. (By the way an excellent site )

The atmospheric port is used to compensate for high altitude driving, as i understand it.

Here is a link -------------> http://www.phat-gti.com/downloads/boschtech-12d.pdf to a Bosch document that describes how the 0-438-140-089 works. See pages 28 & 29 "Full-load enrichment".

I will check the fuel pressures with vacum on the ports and post results tomorrow.

Hi Mark,

Page 29 of the PDF is sort of a generic description of how all vacuum controlled WURs work. Actually, I think the 089 has it's ports reversed from those shown. So it's internal configuration would have to be slightly different.

Full load, figure b, would be the equivalent of engine off, that is, no vacuum.

Hello Jim,
Here are the results of todays testing.

System pressure 4.9 bar
Cold control pressure 1.0 bar
Warm control pressure ( vacum @14"Hg connected to TOP port on wur ) 2.5 bar
Warm control pressure ( vacum @14"Hg connected to SIDE/BOTTOM port on wur ) 3.6 bar
Warm control pressure ( WITHOUT vacum ) 2.8 bar
Rest pressure after 1 hour 1.0 bar
So with the standard +/- 0.2 bar everything seems to be ok, and that the vacum connection for the WUR 911 606 105 09 Bosch # 0 438 140 089 is SIDE/BOTTOM, according to my pressure readings.
All i can say is thanks very much for the help
By the way here she is
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1146760810.jpg