taking the '78 308 Ferrari dive.....keeping the 911 too

[lvporschepilot]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading ferrarichat for some time now. When I took my first breath into Ferrari 308 shopping or considering Ferrari 308 shopping I had to ask myself a few questions.

Parts cost. Are parts really that expensive? The real answer is if you know where to find the parts and the parts that cross reference with other vehicles then no, parts are really not that expensive. For example. For a bit more than the price of two distributor caps (which are necessary for US example carb 308's), one may install an Electromotive system which is eons better and easier to tune. If a person choses to keep the original look of the ignition system, one could at least get rid of the points and replace it with a crane electronic pickup. Distributor caps are the only stupid expensive item that there is no non-original alternative for. Water pumps/ alternators/starters/radiators and many other parts are all rebuildable items that are just as easily sent out to be rebuilt for the fraction of the cost of a rebuilt one with a core charge. 308 clutch is about the same as a 911 ('84-'86). Belts are cheap as well as the 308 cam belt tensioner bearings are much less expensive than any other Ferrari (355 tensioner bearings are $300-400 while 308 are $30-40).

Service on a 308 is as easy as a 911. Really. No, I am not kidding. As far as I am concerned, engine maintenance may even be easier on the 308.


I insist on keeping the 911 as well. The 911 is such a different machine that offers such night and day experience, I cannot imagine my life without having both in my inventory. For a real man and machine driving experience, get a carb'd 308. When tuned to Euro specs, they feel just as fast, if not faster than a Carrera.


I thought I would share my experience with my fellow enthusiasts. I am sure there are many on this forum that feel very similar to the way I did until I started researching a bit. Heck, even Wayne got into one! Go for it!


Anyone on here have both as well??

[CarreraS2]

I had an '83 QV. Didn't like it.

My plan was to sell the 911 that I had. But I couldn't do it. The 911 was such a far superior car, I couldn't see selling it.

I agree they aren't terribly difficult to work on. But IMO more of a pain than a 911. Not having a radiator and all the hoses, etc. that go with it really simplifies the 911. 911 is more fun to work on because the build quality and materials are far better, the engineering is better.

[KWIQSLVR]

When i was growing up, my father had my 911sc, which he used as a daily driver and a 328 GTS as his "toy". Since then, many F-cars have come and gone (most recently a 360 Modena), but the SC has always remained. As a matter of fact, that 360 just went to make room for a 997 C4S cab, his new daily driver.
He loved that 328; said it was the best Ferrari he ever owned. My family loved it too, we were all very upset when he got rid of it. My experience with the 328 was somewhat limited as I was only ten when we had it, but I never remember my father having any problems with it. I know the 308 is slightly different and slightly older, but I imagine if you find a well maintained example you should be able to enjoy it almost as much as your 911. As you said, they are totally different cars and for someone who can enjoy each one for what it is, i think a 308 would be a great addition to anyones stable. just my.02
happy motoring!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Okay, someone post a few shots of 308 F-cars please. Aren't these the cars used in the Magnum, P.I. series in the 80's? I know nothing about Ferrari's but I (think) I do know they used two different model cars in that series, a 308GTB and a 308GTS. Which came first? Which is newer/presumably better? Were there other 308 models and what does it cost to buy in? What cost in relation to a similar year P-Car?

[KWIQSLVR]

yes the 308's were the Magnum PI cars. i think they used a later 328 for a couple of shots too. The GTB is the berlinetta or coupe and the GTS had the removable roof like our targas. otherwise i believe they were the same cars. couldn't tell you what the pricing was back then although i imagine they were more expensive than p-cars to buy and maintain, just like today.

[CarreraS2]

my old '83

[lvporschepilot]

I could never sell my 911. It is just too fantastic and pure. The only Ferrari that is in my budget that I feel fits me right is a carbureted 308. When set up correctly, the 308 a great car to drive and the sound is fantastic. The engineering in many ways is not nearly as tried and true as a Carrera but, the Ferrari makes up for it with pure passion and sound. With the price being in the mid $20k's for a mid-mileage driver car (roughly 50-60k miles), I believe it is an experience no one should pass-up.

The P-car is my rock. The F-car will be my mistress that I would never marry. I have to see what all the fuss is about.

[CarreraS2]

yeah, I felt the same way, too.

I found out the fuss (or at least the former fuss, in the 80s - now these are generally considered dated cars, thus the $25K price) was really based more on mystique than reality or mechanical merit. At least with the 308. I'm sure the later, faster, better built Ferraris are a different story.

[Yellowbird RS]

i had a 348 spyder and find that is not a daily car even a weekend car it's just a one time a month toy and a $$ sucker my brother have a 360 F1 after he sell a nice 355 and find that the 360 can be a nice daily driver if you don't care about valet parking fee and other little issue the cost of the parts is much lower than a 355-348-328 (post-carb cars) Now I sold my 348, GT3 and my 993 targa (probably the best Porsche I ever had) and get a great 2006 F430 F1 Coupe in Rosso Scuderia and I have to say it's the best car ever!!!!!!!!!!!!
about the M. PI Ferraris
but one think Ferrari is not for DIY like us that is the reason to keep my old 1974 Carrera

[1yearonLy]

I love Ferraris, no question, but the 308 style has not aged well in my opinion. I hate to equate 308s to Fiat X19s but the styling seems over-dated. The Mondials and even Dinos still look decent but the 308 reminds me of the long-forgotten Fiat.

I can appreciate wanting one though, I know how it goes. One man's tea is another man's coffee.

[johncarlos2003]

The 308/328's are the iconic ferrari to me and my generation- i was born in '75 so they were on my walls and the walls of my friends all throughout the "formative years" Oh, and so was the Carrera as I remember my friends "Midnight Carrera" poster and now I have my own midnight Carrera! Anyone know where I can find that poster? Ill buy it off ya!!! make a price! thanks- anyway, f-car details:


Known serial numbers for cars used in the show are as follows:


#29109, 1979 308 GTS
#34567, 1981 308 GTSi
#57685, 1984 308 GTS QV
On an interview on the Late Show with David Letterman in 1997, Tom Selleck talked about the cars used in the series. He claimed that 5 different cars were used, and that they were all auctioned off at the end of the series for outrageous prices. Selleck stated that the first car used on the series had a modified racing clutch, which described as very stiff. He said that when he released the clutch, the camera crew almost got run over a few times!

(i pulled this from ferrariclub.com)

[atlporsche]

#34567? hee hee....far out.

sjd

[lvporschepilot]

What I have in mind is a bit of modernising for the car. The a/c will be modified. I plan on really getting my hands filthy with the engine. I will not modify it too much but, just enough to be a bit more respectable. Rejet the carbs, better ignition, modify the cams to euro spec or greater. I might even dive into the engine and replace those 8.8:1 pistons. I think these upgrades would make the car even more rewarding to drive. I know a great cam grinder and I am well versed with the DCNF Weber carburetor. All the 246 Dino guys have modded engines but they all seem to know when enough is enough which is where I intend to stand.

[lateapex911]

Sounds fun! All good reasons, too. Sounds like you know what you're getting yourself in for.

If i were you, I'd drive some "bookmark" cars....just to get a feel for where teh 308 series sits in the lineup.

I would seek out a 246, a 348, and a 355. Different cars to be sure, but it would help me have a good feeling on my final expenditure.

[lvporschepilot]

Drove a 348 and did not like it at all. Drove a 355 and loved it but, the exhaust manifolds go out on a regular basis and there is no repairing them. The manifold must be replaced at close to $3k each. Valve guides are a huge issue with 355's as well. The guides on about 3/4 of the cars go out at about 25k miles or less. Valve guides are $45 each. 40 valves in the engine not to mention if any of those $80 valves need to be replaced=ouch. not worth the vet bills.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally posted by johncarlos2003
... i was born in '75 so....

I graduated from college in '76. Crap, guess I'd better trade my Porsches for a rocking chair

[lateapex911]

Originally posted by lvporschepilot
Drove a 348 and did not like it at all. Drove a 355 and loved it but, the exhaust manifolds go out on a regular basis and there is no repairing them. The manifold must be replaced at close to $3k each. Valve guides are a huge issue with 355's as well. The guides on about 3/4 of the cars go out at about 25k miles or less. Valve guides are $45 each. 40 valves in the engine not to mention if any of those $80 valves need to be replaced=ouch. not worth the vet bills.

I think that was what Richard (Motion) was saying in his search for the best Ferrari. I think he said the next iteration after teh 355 was much better from a "real car" point of view.

Of course, the prices reflect that.

Still, the sound of a 355 ripping up thru the gears is intoxicating.

[lvporschepilot]

Yeah, the 355 sound is intoxicating. Many hardcore Ferrari guys say that the valve guide issues were only an issue with the vehicle made pre-'97. I heard from a specialist in the bay area that the valve guides were an issue throughout all years. Supposedly, Ferrari used a couple different types of valve guides and unfortunately the one that was used more commonly is the one with the problems. Not a chance I am willing to take unless it is a car with 30k miles on it already with no issues. Higher mileage dirver 355's are in the upper $50k range nowadays. maybe, hmmmmm

[javadog]

lvporschepilot,

I have an '86 328GTB and an '86 Testarossa. There are a few things you may find when living long term with a Ferrari of this vintage, or older. They will need more regular maintenance than a similar vintage Porsche. Most of them don't get it, sadly, and the next owner gets to pay for it. I am not talking about cam belts and the usual stuff people worry about. For example, on a 308, or 328, the suspension bushes will dry out and wear rapidly, if not looked after. Things you take for granted to last on a 911 for 100k miles can be shot on a Ferrari at 20K.

Parts prices can be eye-watering, for parts that are not common to other cars. Ferrari dealer profit margins are pretty high, too. I looked at a rear axle yesterday for a TR and it was around $1,360 retail. Dealer net was around $775, if it was ordered on a stock order. A Porsche part would be considerably cheaper. Aftermarket prices on Ferrari parts are cheaper than dealer prices but they are still stupid expensive, for lots of things.

Ferrari likes to sell complete assemblies, not components. When I was looking for LSD plates for my 328, all Ferrari offered was a complete differential. Fortunately, it's a ZF part, so plates from a Porsche supplier were found and used. A small differential cover plate was not available, but a complete transmission housing was. Etc.

Many parts that you take for granted are NLA. Need a new steering rack? Sorry, no have. Want factory brake rotors? Make lots of calls. Need a tranny gear? So sorry. Want some small, obscure little part? Good luck finding it in the parts book. Some parts just aren't listed. Aftermarket support is thin. I can think of two places in the US worth calling. That's it.

It's not all doom and gloom. They are fun to drive and are completely different from Porsches, which is nice once in a while. Just be prepared to fix lots of things that previous owners never thought about and plan on frequently servicing a bunch of stuff that needs no service on a Porsche.

Have fun,

JR

[lvporschepilot]

My previous passion were old GT Maserati's which provide a new definition to high maintenance. I had a Bora and Merak SS, and before those, a Mistral.
I know that the older Ferrari's had no lube points for the suspension components. When you take a normal car to get the joints lubed, you would just pop the nozzle on the fitting and pump a bit of grease and BING, done. Older Ferrari, you have to replace the soft suspension parts because their is no way to lube them. A good alternative to finding real $$$ parts is to take the old parts and manufacture delrin bushings or, there are a couple companies that offer a stainless steel (I think) set.

If there were a holy grail for Ferrari 308 parts, this would be it. The Vitaloni column switch. This switch was used in several cars in the 70's but, they all used different wiring harnesses with it. Roughly 10 years ago, a Maserati fanatic named Kyle Fleming (well known in teh GT Maserati world) contact the Vitaloni company before they all but dissappeared and requested that a few be made for him. At the time, Vitaloni was only willing to manufacture a minimum production run of 50. Kyle declined, then found out two years later that all the tooling to make those switches was destroyed make the Vitaloni column switch in great condition, the ultimate part find($2k+ if you can find one).


As far as a steering rack is concerned. How do you think those vintage Duesenberg guys get steering parts>? There are a number of rebuilders for just about anything on a car. I had to have nearly everything rebuilt at one time or another on my Merak SS. Parts for that Maser were not available in this country and when they were available out of the country there was no way I was going to cough up the rupels for what they wanted for that stuff.

Stuff can be rebuilt. There are far more rare cars on the road than Ferrari 308's where the owners know taht when anything goes wrong, they either have to build a new one themselves or rebuild it.....somewhere.