Ethanol is coming soon....what will Porsche do?

[svonkampen]

Hi,

Thought you guys would like to chat about this.......I would love too see Porsche being the first of the "Sports-car" companies to persue an Ethanol powered-sports coupe.........surely they must be planning for this right?.........It would seem "fitting" for a German sports-car company to lead the way to tommorow's alternative-fuel powered sports-car. I would feel so proud of them.

thoughts?

SvK

[bigchillcar]

my bet is that this technology will come from japan first. just a hunch. thoughts? other than that..at first i thought maybe 'beer was coming' when i glanced at the thread..
ryan

[EarlyPorsche]

Now is this ethanol going to be bad on fuel system seals?

[Shawn 357]

Ethanol is already here. If you have access to Alldata check out some newer vehicles and when you select what engines they have a lot of Fords, GMs, etc. already have flex fuel. When they say flex fuel that means they are capable of running on gas or ethanol.
I actually just watched something the other night about how some billionare is trying make ethanol the main fuel used in the near future. The show was saying how ethanol is already readily accessible in a country (I can't remember which one) and that the majority of vehicles that are sold in that country are flex fuel. The billionare was saying that ethanol could be as little as $0.70 a gallon and can be made from prairie grass.
There is a gas station that sells E85 (85% ethanol) right by my house but I haven't tried it.

[svonkampen]

Shawn

Would it not be cool if Porsche as a "gesture" made the first super-sports coupe fuelled by prarie grass ;-)

SvK

[Rob Channell]

Brazil was the country. I think it was on Dateline NBC.

I was wondering about this. Even though I might be able to use some sort of fuel in my car that has some ethanol, I probably want straight gasoline so I can get better fuel economy, and more importantly, more power.

What I need is a vehicle that can be run on BS. Then I could power it completely from the Off Topic Forum.

[Shawn 357]

Porsche is making SUV's now....maybe a hybrid is next : )

SvK,
Didn't I see a post a while back that you had bought a redish 993? How has it been treating you?

Shawn

[Shawn 357]

Rob,
You're right it was Brazil. That show was pretty interesting.
I haven't tried the E85 in any of my cars, but I have some friends who run it without any complaints...

SvK,
I just read your signature and answered my own question about the 993, I remember the pic's of the car, I'm jealous.

[dentist90]

If we start pouring ethanol into our vehicles at the rate of billions of gallons per year, what will that do to the price of a bottle of Vodka???
On the other hand, if there's 170 proof in the gas tank all you need is a long straw....

[1fastredsc]

It's worth mentioning to that e85 has a much higher octain rating that normal gasoline does. Imagine the next turbo running on e85 and breaking 600hp from porsche.

[oneblueyedog]

I'm starting to think about raising the CR of my engine then.

All I've had to do so far is raise the Idle adjustment. Cold starts are running stumbly.

[Paulporsche]

What has me concerned is that, as the amount of ethanol increases per volume of fuel, what will the effect be on CIS equipped cars?

Maybe the net effect will be an increase in Tbitz installations!

[Jim Smolka]

FWIW, in a recent Pano article, it was mentioned that Porsche was working with Toyota to build a hybrid.

In another article, someone had taken a VW diesel TDI motor. Installed spark plugs, increased compression ratio and then ran ehtanol. The car was more efficient that a diesel TDI. IMHO, a high compression normall aspirated ethanol cars is a good way to go.

[charleskieffner]

with germany being the first country ever to produce in quanity synthetic fuel and oil due to their loss of the Polesti oil fields in Romania and the defeat of the AFRIKA CORP, i think they have a hell of a head start on japan! like 61 years of research! will be interesting to see how the big 3 oil companies will react. watched the nightline show re: ethanol and how the entrepeneur has ALREADY been warned that the oil companies CAN and WILL drop their prices to slow ethanol useage. as long as we dont have to rely on middle east oil, the world will be a better place.

[Miguel Antonett]

The main problem using ethanol - or any alcohol - as fuel for older P-cars is the deterioration of the rubber hoses, seals and diaphrams. The alcohol will "harden & eat" the old rubber molecules promoting leaks and loose pieces of rubber in the sytem plugging injectors... The solution is basically to refurbish the fuel system with fresh alcohol resistante rubber = $$$$; other than that ethanol is good. IMHO I believe the change in fuel is coming but hope it takes a while.

[oneblueyedog]

I posted this in another thread .1090 SD (superdiesel)?

.....On another front - biodiesel in Oregon is now cheaper than petro diesel and Eugene is about to get its own fueling station. It also burns cleaner than the petro diesel fuel.


A little searching reveals that diesel is hugely accepted in the EU.

I read somwhere that Canola oil was originally developed as a fuel oil and works well in diesels.

It's well known with the fringe that waste cooking oil is a resource.

I'm seriously thinking about selling one of my gas vehicles and getting a VW TDI diesel. There's a Porsche heritage there. The engine technology is marvelous.

Last week Diesel was 10¢ cheaper than regular in TX.

Diesels don't have to be slow either. What if Porsche developed a superdiesel?

I dig this idea-

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/motoring/advertorials/vauxhall_performance_diesel.html

http://www.babez.de/opel/eco.php

[Super_Dave_D]

Originally posted by charleskieffner
with germany being the first country ever to produce in quanity synthetic fuel and oil due to their loss of the Polesti oil fields in Romania and the defeat of the AFRIKA CORP, i think they have a hell of a head start on japan! like 61 years of research! will be interesting to see how the big 3 oil companies will react. watched the nightline show re: ethanol and how the entrepeneur has ALREADY been warned that the oil companies CAN and WILL drop their prices to slow ethanol useage. as long as we dont have to rely on middle east oil, the world will be a better place.

They werent that good at it because most of the Tigers, King Tigers and JagdTigers were lost due to lack of fuel and mechanical breakdowns.

[charleskieffner]

arent we glad they did break down????????? how'd you like to have a face off being in a piss ant sherman???????? color ME GONE! if my history is correct 2 engines for the tigers were spec'd. DR Porsches and MAYBACH. Maybach i think won bid due to DR P's design being more complicated. all suffered from misc tranny problems and lack of spare parts and fuel shortages(hence the jump towards syn fuels) when in der vaterland in 1972 went to deutsches mueseum and saw some tigers.............UNDAMN REAL!

[plain fan]

Based on the Audi R12 I think a diesel based sports car is in the immediate future. We drive cars designed in Europe where diesel is not an ugly word. Europe will continue to move towards very efficient (hp/torque/emmisions) diesel engines. In America and other parts of the world where grain is plentiful (plenty of land to support the production) ethanol will be pushed. Just my opionion I could be wrong.

As far as retrofitting an older Porsche for ethanol use, how many threads have we seen recently that dealt with replacing fuel lines? Absolutely the early adopters will pay the premium for the rest of us, but once parts are identified as working solutions the price will drop. Technology will also evolve, possibly from Porsche themselves (but unlikely) and ethanol resistent seals for our older cars will become available. Wayne, how would you like to be the first supplier of seals for older European cars that will allow them to run ethanol? How much will that be worth to the millions of old car nuts?

[Miguel Antonett]

Here we go Wayne, OPPORTUNITIES...