Tensioner Banjo Oil Leak - How to Fix?

[LanceS4803]

After a valve adjustment, I noticed that the passenger side outboard chain tensioner fitting is leaking. Takes a few minutes with the engine warming up to spring, then it comes pretty fast. It is not leaking from the banjo fitting (I checked with a mirror), but is leaking where the pictured part bolts into the cam towers. The part is tight in the towers. Never had this problem until after removing/reinstalling valve covers.
Does this part simply bolt into the tower? Is there a washer that could have failed?
What is the fix?

[MotoSook]

Remove the adapter (remove banjo, then use a socket on the adapter) and get a new crush washer...torque to spec...and it should stop leaking, or! you can torque the adapter a little with the existing washer. OR! You can take the washer out, flip it over and torque to spec..should reseat and seal.

[Early_S_Man]

There is another sealing washer under the adapter that you are pointing to ... same as the ones on either side of the banjo fitting. The adapter takes the coarse M12 x 1.5 threads of the banjo bolt, which are removed a lot more often than the M12 x 1.00 adapter itself.

[LanceS4803]

Okay, that sounds like an easy fix!
I'm a little gun-shy of taking out a part when I don't know what is on the other side.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by Souk
Remove the adapter (remove banjo, then use a socket on the adapter) and get a new crush washer...torque to spec...and it should stop leaking, or! you can torque the adapter a little with the existing washer. OR! You can take the washer out, flip it over and torque to spec..should reseat and seal.

What is the torque spec for the washer?

Already tried to tighten it, affraid to crank on it too much- leaks a little more than before.

Edit: did a search; feel the crush washer crush, if it leaks after a while give it a 1/4 turn but no more.

[LanceS4803]

PP came through with the parts.
This was a very easy fix (once the AC parts came out). I went ahead and replaced all the crush washer (3) around that fitting. No telling how long I have had a slow leak.
Thanks all for your advice.

[NEW911SC2]

I have a similar leak on the other side. How much oil do you loose when you are replacing the washers? I'm not sure how much oil remains in the line prior to disconnecting it. Thanks.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by LanceS4803
PP came through with the parts.
This was a very easy fix (once the AC parts came out). I went ahead and replaced all the crush washer (3) around that fitting. No telling how long I have had a slow leak.
Thanks all for your advice.

I tried going to a Porsche dealership yesteday, going pass it while delivering some drawings to the printer. Dealer said two different sizes - only had one size in stock. As my fittings were relocated three years ago for chain tensioner upgrade, I'll be looking at my old invoice before ordering from Pelican soon.

[LanceS4803]

You don't lose any oil at all.
A suggestion is to get a small mirror, I used a 2"x3" to see down under that side to wipe the area clean before reassembly.
My fitting, the part with the tip of the arrow on it, was on VERY tight. I had to use a short cheater bar on the end of my socket wrench.

[kqw]

Originally posted by Souk
Remove the adapter (remove banjo, then use a socket on the adapter) and get a new crush washer...

Souk...Are you quite sure about the "crush" washer?

It's my experience that those washers are NOT crush washers but "sealing rings" and they do not crush.

You must get the correct sealing rings to stop that leak and properly torque the bolt.

[kqw]

Here's a pic of the sealing rings you want....

[911pcars]

A sealing ring typically has an ID with a bit of rubber to seal the joint, but this joint is supposed to seal with (3) aluminum crush washers; one between the adapter and chain housing; the others are above and below the banjo bolt as shown in your pic.

I suppose it doesn't really matter what you use as long as oil stays where it should be and no rubber bits can get into the system. I'd suggest what the factory suggests.

Sherwood

[kach22i]

Can some post Pelican ordering numbers, sealing ring/crush washer and spec sizes?

Are there really different banjo sizes?

How many items for each banjo?

Just two washers?

What about the stuff below the upper connection?

Should I be putting a small amount of gasket sealer or high temp Locktight on anything?

[kqw]

Sealing ring part number from Pelican Parts - J-123-005-00 - $1.35 ea.

you need qty. 2

[kach22i]

Originally posted by kqw
Sealing ring part number from Pelican Parts - J-123-005-00 - $1.35 ea.

you need qty. 2

Cool, thanks.

Does it do any good to spray PB Blaster/Wd40 before you go cranking?

I was told to shore-up and brace the line connections before twisting on the banjo connector bolts. Things do seem to be very delicate in there.

[MotoSook]

Originally posted by kqw
Souk...Are you quite sure about the "crush" washer?

It's my experience that those washers are NOT crush washers but "sealing rings" and they do not crush.

You must get the correct sealing rings to stop that leak and properly torque the bolt.

Jim has answered it.

It's simply a washer. The soft washer allows for the mating surfaces to seat against each other and provide a seal. It's really that simple. You guys are making it more difficult than it has to be. With metal seats, the seat material only has to be softer than the material contacting it. A 20 cent aluminum washer from the hardware store is more than appropriate for the task.

Unless the washer is completely beat up or crushed to beyond usefulness, I just flip it over. The now contact surfaces will seat against each other and create seal.

I've even used equipment that relies on stainless steel seats! And that's to hold hundreds of pounds of pressure. The sealing force is obviously higher in that application, but it's an example that the seal is nothing more than metal on metal.

If the fitting leaks, just apply a little more torque to it. The worst that can happen is you deform the banjo a bit...and that's when you are beyond reasonable torque values.

[kach22i]

I fixed the chronic leaking problem on Saturday. A problem, which has become slowly more annoying over the past two seasons (Indian signals - puffs of smoke as the oil drips onto the heat exchanges).

Ever since I got my car from a shop, which I will no longer be visiting, it's leaked. I did not know until now that the problem was this simple. I know the banjo connections open up over time and leak, but mine came back from the shop leaking. And the shop owner claiming it was other parts of the car in a vague way, and of course nothing he did or did not do.

To those of you in my situation (lied to and desperate) please do this. Grab a large open-end wrench and brace your delicate lines so they do not rotate when you crank on it. It will take more force than you expect to give it, it will turn the 1/4 turn everyone has talked about. If you do not get that little bit of turn your connection might leak a little more than before, so be steady and focused.

As a note, the lowest nut wanted to turn with the upper banjo bolt. I tried to take everything off so I could secure the lower nut independenly, but had a difficult time in doing so. I gave up on the lower nut and decided to tighten it all back up. It worked, no new washers involved either.

God have mercy on the bastard try to get these babies off (oh that will be me in a couple of years).

Righty tighty, lefty loosey...................................

Carry on men.

[kach22i]

UPDATE

A week or so after tightening the banjo connections they have started leaking. No where as bad as they were, just saying there is no substitue for new washers.

$1.35 x 4 = $5.40..............................I can do that.

[kach22i]

SPRING UPDATE

I put the banjo washers in last week as part of my spring "list of things to do" after a long winter rest.

Passenger side fine.

Drivers side still leaks as before.

Both fittings wer lose as they entered the enghine, but very tight where I had tightened them at the top.

Top part: The aluminum washers Pelican sent me had a slightly smaller inside diameter than the copper ones they replaced. However there was some dried up gasket paste on the copper washers which seemed to be in very poor condition for the age and miles they have been in.

Bottom part: The washer I took out were quite a bit larger with a smaller inside diameter but they were also aluminum.

The Plan: One of the large aluminum washers is in perfect condition as it was never properly torqued down and crushed. I also have two spare unused washers from my earlier Pelican order last fall. I'm going to install the washers on the leaky drivers side. Debating if any kind of sealer should be applied.

Sealer or no sealer?

I have one shot at this, then the spare washers are shot and I'll have to order more

.

[Gogar]

I recently installed new cam-tower oil pressure restrictors in this location, using this kit from our host:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=911M&section=ENGcam&page=1&bookmark=4&part_number=PEL-CAMRSTN

When I removed my old parts (the nut under the banjo fitting), there were no sealing washers underneath. My engine has always leaked a bit in this place also.

Anyway, I only removed 4 washers, 2 on each side (around the banjo fitting.) But I was confused because the "kit" that Pelican sells includes 6 washers.

So, I figured what the heck and I used ALL 6. One under the pressure restrictor (the fitting the farthest in), and one on each side of the banjo and It's dry as a bone.

Is it possible you're supposed to have a sealing washer UNDER the pressure restrictor fitting and you DON'T? causing the leak. I dunno.

Perhaps one of the pros can tell us if there's actually SUPPOSED to be one there. I figure it can't hurt.